Search results for 'tag:Pronouns tag:Noun phrases' matching tags 'Pronouns' and 'Noun phrases'

Re: participle as a subject

Cool Breeze — Sat, 12 Jul 2008 09:38:04 GMT

CalifJim
Your question opens up a good many sticky points in the terminology. Do we (Can we) talk about certain structures by naming them without regard to their function in context? Or not? Probably not. Is love a noun or a verb? Only context will tell.

Hmm... this seems to be another case of varying terminology. I have no objection to calling a participle an adjective, I'm just not used to that. Nor am I used to many other grammatical terms used here, like "a noun phrase". Don't get me wrong! I certainly don't mean there's anything wrong with it or that it is worse or better than the terms I am used to. I just had never heard it before I hit these forums. I can guess at the meaning of such expressions, of course.

The terminology must sometimes be confusing to learners whose native languages are so different from English that they don't even have verbs, let alone participles or gerunds! I can't start using terms I am not familiar with and thus I use the terms I learned to use in school ages ago. Hopefully I'll still be of use and assistance to some learners, at least to those who come from European countries. I'm sure I sometimes just confuse native speakers of English.

That tradition is centuries old in Europe. It is probably based on early grammarians' work and analysis of Latin. For example, "my" and its equivalents in all the grammar books that I have read and that deal with Finnish, Swedish, German, English and Latin grammar is invariably called a pronoun. In America, I think it's a called a possessive adjective? Perhaps in Britain too. Of course it isn't used instead of a noun and thus the name is misleading, but grammarians just call it a possessive pronoun anyway. It is a matter of what has been more or less consciously agreed upon. I have seen the term "dependent possessive pronoun" used to refer to "my", and the term "independent possessive pronoun" has been applied to words like "mine" because they don't need a noun after them. Therefore they are "independent". If I began to use such terms here, I'm sure I would confuse people even more!

Yes, context will tell, and I think it is plain to see in all cases. In Finnish, there are no such problems - if that is a problem at all. A noun cannot be mistaken for a verb. Nouns and verbs are always different words.

Cheers, CB

Re: participle as a subject

CalifJim — Sat, 12 Jul 2008 01:48:17 GMT

Cool Breeze
I am walking. Walking is an adjective?

"allegedly" See below.

From Introduction to the Grammar of English (Huddleston, Cambridge Textbooks in Linguistics)

... participles are said to be 'verbal adjectives'.

First example given:

He was telling the truth.

Later:

... a present participle ... allegedly has adjectival properties. I say 'allegedly' because it is difficult to see any significant functional resemblance to an adjective ... [in the first example on the list].

He goes on to say that the -ing words in such examples are clearly verbs, while in other contexts they are clearly adjectives.

_____

With respect to the original question then, I suppose the more accurate description is that participles are either parts of verb phrases or are adjectives. In either case, a participle -- being verb or adjective -- cannot be the subject of a sentence unless it is in the cleft sentence structure, as illustrated earlier in the thread by GG. I think that's the only structure that allows a participle or an adjective to be promoted to the status of a noun phrase so it can be a subject.

At least that's my claim. Maybe someone can provide a counterexample. That would be instructive.

Edit:

'Destroyed' is the best description of that town.

Here a participle (adjective) is promoted to a noun and is the subject of the sentence. So there are cases other than the cleft sentence structure that allow it. Nevertheless, note the quotes. It works in the same way that anything in quotes can be promoted to subject:

'Xygneoowytoeyy' is a nonsense word.

'got into the truck' is not a complete sentence.

_____

Your question opens up a good many sticky points in the terminology. Do we (Can we) talk about certain structures by naming them without regard to their function in context? Or not? Probably not. Is love a noun or a verb? Only context will tell.

Cool Breeze
To hear him sing is an unforgettable experience.

to hear him sing is a sentence with a non-finite verb used as a noun phrase in a higher level sentence. The idea is that the terminological identity of a word or group of words may change depending on which level in a hierarchy of clauses it is considered. At the lowest level of the "tree", to hear is indeed an infinitive (a non-finite verb), but in the context of the whole sentence (higher in the hierarchical tree), to hear him sing is the subject of the main clause, is nominal in nature, and is called a noun phrase. (Infinitives are often nominal in nature, so this is not surprising; for example, [I want + noun phrase] can take either of these forms: I want some pizza. I want to sing.)

Cool Breeze
Using an infinitive as a subject may not be common in American English

Actually, infinitives are used in AmE as subjects. The location geographically or historically has nothing to do with it. But infinitives (and their complement(s), if any), taken together, can make noun phrases.

To be absolutely precise, it is a noun phrase (NP) that must be the subject of a sentence. I oversimplified by saying 'noun or pronoun'.

Re: ALL AND BOTH

Mr Wordy — Thu, 10 Jul 2008 00:11:37 GMT

[I made a minor edit to this just after posting it to correct an ambiguous example.]

"Both" is always plural, so that's easy.

"All" as a standalone pronoun can be either singular or plural. If it means "all of these individual things", then it's plural:

All are present and correct.

What should I use, a pencil, marker, or pen? All are fine.

If it means "everything" or "every part of" then it's singular:

All is well with the world.

All's fair in love and war.

Then there are the cases when "all" (or "all of") qualifies a noun or noun phrase. If the noun is plural then "all" acts as a plural:

All politicians are corrupt.

All of the women here are drunk.

If the noun is singular or uncountable then "all" acts as a singular:

All of my house has been painted.

All exercise is good for you.

There may be some other usage patterns too, but these are the ones that immediately come to mind.

Re: When the teacher (had) arrived, they stopped talking.

Ant_222 — Wed, 02 Jul 2008 12:21:49 GMT

New2grammar
My problem with definite and indefinite articles is less than with definite/indefinite pronouns. I think I'm starting to see other and another as indefinite articles, my as definite article and mine as indefinite article.

There's no such corellation, except for "another", which is in fact "an" + "other", so dont' need to think of these words as capable of rendering a noun definite or indefinite on their own.

"Take by my hand" â how can it be definite when we don't no which hand is in question?

"Your English is better than mine" â how can it be indefinite when it's a comparison of the English skills of two people?

... And so on.

New2grammar
I have to say referring to other, another, my, mine as definite/indefinite is something new to me.

We didn't refer to this words alone. It were noun phrases buit therewith that we called definite or indefinite. And since nouns can be (in)definte, that's all right.

Re: help me!!

CalifJim — Wed, 12 Mar 2008 02:37:50 GMT

Anonymous
Is the last sentence grammatically correct?

Yes.

Anonymous
can 'no one' substitue for the noun phrase' the copy shop' ??

Not really. Where would you make that substitution? No one means nobody at all; it doesn't refer to the copy shop. The sentence is saying that there does not exist any person or group of people who can do better than the copy shop in question.

Anonymous
what does the pronoun 'them' exactly substitue for?

'the copy shop', or more specifically, the people who work there.

Anonymous
I don't know why (a) can't be also a possible answer.

The dialog starts with a greeting formula. Hi, Mark! starts a conversation with a known acquaintance, a friend. How often do you approach a friend and say 'hello' and then ask your friend how long he has lived there? Does that sound like the first question you would ask a friend of yours?

help me!!

Anonymous — Wed, 12 Mar 2008 01:47:16 GMT

M: For the best quality printing I always use the the copy shop on West 7th Avenue,

W: That's the truth. There really is no one like them.

question: Is the last sentence grammatically correct? can 'no one' substitue for the noun phrase' the copy shop' ?? and what does the pronoun 'them' exactly substitue for?

W: Hi. Mark. How long have you been here?

M:__

(a) I've lived here for 7 years.

(b) I got here around 9.

question: the answer for this question is (b) but I don't know why (a) can't be also a possible answer..

Re: Two question about "where"

Goodman — Wed, 06 Feb 2008 23:35:54 GMT

Velimir wrote:
Hello everybody, I have two questions about the word "where" . 1.I've been told that "where" in the following sentence is a pronoun by its form : Where did you get to? And the explanation is that in possible answer like: I got to page 4. it stands for the noun phrase "page 4". If it is a pronoun in this sentence,is it because of the stranding of the preposition,or in any question beginning with "where" it is to be understood as a interrogative pronoun,not an adverb.(i.e "Where are you going" --> "I am going to London",would it be interpreted that "where" stands for the noun "London"). 2.When "where" is used as a subordinator to join two clauses like in the following sentence: a) Macy's is the place where I buy my clothes. what is "where" by its form in the subordinate clause "where I buy my clothes",a pronoun or an adverb? And if "the place" is left out like: b) Macy's is where I buy my clothes. does it change anything? Is "where" to be understood as a pronoun (and what noun it replaces then),conjunction,or an adverb. Many thanks Velimir

Hi Velimir,

One of the functions of where, when, who ,what and which is to form a question. i.e. Where have you been! In this usage, itâs an adverb for places and locations.

When did you call? â âWhenâ, like âwhichâ and âwhatâ is also an adverb, and it infers time.

Another function for these words is a conjunction which joints two separate concept or ideas together in a single sentence. i.e. âIt was eight in the evening when she came homeâ.

âI saw a man who looked to be at his late 20âs coming out of your house around 4 in the afternoon when I came home from school.â This sentence contained 2 relative pronouns :who and when.

This may help you.

http://grammar.uoregon.edu/pronouns/relative.html

Re: Two question about "where"

Velimir — Tue, 05 Feb 2008 19:58:24 GMT

Hello Kooyeen,

First,thank you very much for your answer .
In the meantime I've got the answer on part 1 of my post .It is a question of a preposition at the end of a question.I understand that if ,for example, I ask :

Where are you going to? - "where" is a pronoun since it can be replaced with a noun phrase like "which place"

but in:

Where are you going? - "where" is an adverb here because it can be replaced by "to which place" what is an adverbial expression.

Anyway,this is my interpretation of the answer I've got on other forum. Also,it was my opinion that "where" in questions is always an adverb since it always renders some adverbial expression in answer,which can be equalized with "where" in the question no matter where you put a preposition. And generaly it is more an adverb even in situations with stranded preposition.

And you know, it is interesting that both in Cambridge Advanced Learners Dictionary and Oxford ALD "where" is indicated as an adverb and conjunction,but not as a pronoun. What means that they are of my opinion.I would put smiley here but I don't know how to insert it, so please imagine one. And one more.

Again,thank you very much for your answer Kooyeen

Velimir

Two question about "where"

Velimir — Tue, 05 Feb 2008 09:59:37 GMT

Hello everybody,

I have two questions about the word "where" .

1.I've been told that "where" in the following sentence is a pronoun by its form :

Where did you get to?

And the explanation is that in possible answer like:

I got to page 4.

it stands for the noun phrase "page 4".

If it is a pronoun in this sentence,is it because of the stranding of the preposition,or in any question beginning with "where" it is to be understood as a interrogative pronoun,not an adverb.(i.e "Where are you going" --> "I am going to London",would it be interpreted that "where" stands for the noun "London").

2.When "where" is used as a subordinator to join two clauses like in the following sentence:

a) Macy's is the place where I buy my clothes.

what is "where" by its form in the subordinate clause "where I buy my clothes",a pronoun or an adverb?

And if "the place" is left out like:

b) Macy's is where I buy my clothes.

does it change anything? Is "where" to be understood as a pronoun (and what noun it replaces then),conjunction,or an adverb.

Many thanks

Velimir

Re: Noun clauses Vs adjective clauses

Hoa Thai — Wed, 23 Jan 2008 05:58:47 GMT

Anonymous wrote:

1. The news that he won surprised us all. (Noun clause?)
2. The news which we received last month was unbelievable.
3. It is a fact that the earth is round.
4. The fact that the earth is round is ~~weel~~ well-known.

Hi Sothy Sin,

#1 and #2 relative pronoun clauses are of adjectival type. They modify the noun in their own sentence.
You mentioned about appositives. Appositive is a noun or noun phrase that renames a nearby noun. For examples:

His first novel, The Blue Dream, will soon be published ....
His novel 'The Blue Dream' will soon be published ....

The Blue Dream is the appositive in both sentences.

#3 and #4 are appositive clauses.

EDIT: I forgot to answer your question regarding noun clauses, which perform a function of a noun. Below are a couple of examples:

That he looked at Ann made me angry. (subject)
I discovered what he had asked her. (direct object)