Search results for 'tag:Pronouns tag:Prepositions' matching tags 'Pronouns' and 'Prepositions'

Sentence combining using dependent(relative) clause

Raen — Tue, 16 Sep 2008 16:14:09 GMT

Here is a practice:

Q: A minute passed in complete silence. Terri announced her wedding plans then.

I wrote: A minute passed in complete silence when Terri announced her wedding plans.

A: A minute when Terri announced her wedding plans passed in complete silence.

Grammar rules say: The adjective clause is used to modify a noun or a pronoun. It will begin with a relative pronoun (who, whose, whom, which, and that) or a subordinate conjunction (when and where). Those are the only words that can be used to introduce an adjective clause. The introductory word will always rename the word that it follows and modifies except when used with a preposition which will come between the introductory word and the word it renames.

It seems to me the official answer is a strict product of the rules and does not sound natural to me. If "when Terri announced her wedding plans" is to highlight/modify "minute" (as the grammar rule indicates), shouldn't the article "A" be a definite "The" specifying the time in a period of ONE MINUTE when the wedding plans were announced?

I just thought the length of time (a minute) was more of a figurative speech when the silence occured as a result of Terri's announcing her wedding plans not the precise minute that it took to announce her wedding plans. Any thoughts? Thanks a lot.

Raen

Re: nominative and objective pronouns.......confusing!

Cool Breeze — Tue, 16 Sep 2008 07:34:07 GMT

Anonymous

Thank you so much for the thoughtful responses. One last question about my earlier example ("...guys like we/us"):

Can someone please explain why "like" is a preposition in that sentence and not a conjunction?

There are so many pages and sentences that I won't bother to find your example but I'll explain the difference anyway. Here are the examples of like used as a preposition Webster's Dictionary gives:

prep.
7.    in like manner with; similarly to; in the manner characteristic of: He works like a beaver.
8.    resembling (someone or something): He is just like his father. Your necklace is just like mine.
9.    characteristic of: It would be like him to forget our appointment.
10.    as if there is promise of; indicative of: It looks like rain.
11.    as if someone or something gives promise of being: She looks like a good prospect for the job.
12.    disposed or inclined to (usually prec. by feel): to feel like going to bed.
13.    similar or comparable to: There is nothing like a cold drink of water when one is thirsty. What was he like?
14.    (used correlatively to indicate similarity through relationship): like father, like son.
15.    (used to establish an intensifying, often facetious, comparison): sleeping like a log.
16.    as; such as: There are numerous hobbies you might enjoy, like photography or painting.
17.    like anything, Informal. very much; extremely; with great intensity: He wanted like anything to win.

As you can see, in none of the above cases is there a subject and a finite verb after like. A conjunction is normally followed by a subject (unless the subject is the same as in the previous clause and thus may have been omitted) and a finite verb. Examples:

He didn't come although I asked him. We went to the beach because the sun was out. If you work hard, you'll succeed. He tried hard but [he] failed.

The same dictionary gives these examples of like used as a conjunction:

âconj.
21. in the same way as; just as; as: It happened like you might expect it would.
22. as if: He acted like he was afraid.

Re: Trouble finding subject and objects in this sentence

Huevos — Tue, 16 Sep 2008 00:41:18 GMT

Mister Micawber
what about 'on',

Mister Micawber
or rest on is a phrasal verb with what as direct object

I'm not sure. I don't see it as a strictly phrasal verb as the meaning is not idiomatic. He rests on the bed. He rests in bed. He rests at home. The choice of preposition doesn't seem to change the meaning of "rest". Also I'm not sure about "what" as an object. It's function here is interrogative pronoun, right? Does that make it an object (prepositional object)?

Re: nominative and objective pronouns.......confusing!

Huevos — Mon, 15 Sep 2008 23:31:44 GMT

Avangi
But "Than" is not.

I wasn't using the "after-preposition rule" to support this construction. Use here is open to opinion. "She is taller than I" is presciptivist, whereas "she is taller than me" is the overwelming choice of the language's native speakers. The question is how deep rooted does a use have to become before conservative prescriptivists accept it as part of the language.

By the way which version is your King James of choice?

Re: nominative and objective pronouns.......confusing!

Anonymous — Mon, 15 Sep 2008 23:02:05 GMT

cool breeze, huevos, and others:

Thank you so much for the thoughtful responses. One last question about my earlier example ("...guys like we/us"):

Can someone please explain why "like" is a preposition in that sentence and not a conjunction?

Like is one of those weird words. It can be a noun, verb, conjunction, preposition, cook, chief, and bottle washer.

Re: nominative and objective pronouns.......confusing!

Avangi — Mon, 15 Sep 2008 20:28:16 GMT

Huevos
"Like" is a preposition so follows that rule.

But "Than" is not.

We who are pretentious and supercilious salute you. Faux-prepositions, beware.

Re: nominative and objective pronouns.......confusing!

Huevos — Mon, 15 Sep 2008 19:58:34 GMT

Avangi
What might the implied verb be?

Avangi, I don't want to get into that with this sentence. For the reason why, read my point to Raen below. "Like" is a preposition so follows that rule.

But to give you an idea what I mean about implied verb...

She is taller than me.
She is taller than I am.

Some people say "She is taller than I" but my recommendation is to leave that construction for the pretentious and supercilious, (maybe I'm just too much of an Alfred P. Doolittle to use it).

Raen
So it's always "between you and me" no matter where this expression sits in a sentence?

"Between" is a preposition. Pronouns that follow prepositions are always in the accusative case, not nominative. It's a rule, not a matter of opinion. Here are some examples that wrongly use the nominative.

He wrote a book about she.

The girl passed between he and I.

The bullet passed through he.

The waiter spilt orange juice on she.

Everyone caught the train except I.

Their father ordered the meal for they.

Re: nominative and objective pronouns.......confusing!

Avangi — Mon, 15 Sep 2008 15:41:35 GMT

Raen
[Do you mean opinion different from one person to the next, or "one grammar book" to the next?

Language is constantly changing - especially English. Grammarians disagree constantly, as Huevos has said.

Consider the expression, "Between you and me. . . . " Both pronouns function as object of the preposition.

Little kids sometimes say, "Me and him went to the movies." Parents and teachers keep harping at them, "No! It's 'he and I.' Always say the other person first! 'He and I, You and I !' "

They eventually learn that "you and me" is bad English. So when they need to say "between you and me," they hypercorrect it to "between you and I," because the objective case sounds wrong to their ears.

When the majority of native speakers prefer an incorrect usage, grammarians respond. The usage board, like the US Supreme Court bending the Constitution, yields to the pressure.

Re: nominative and objective pronouns.......confusing!

Avangi — Mon, 15 Sep 2008 04:49:45 GMT

I'd say object of the preposition "like," which is certainly the popular version (like them, like us).

I think "such as" takes the nominative (such as they, such as we), but many would use objective (such as them, such as us).

- A.

Sentence Analysis

Anonymous — Sat, 13 Sep 2008 12:49:24 GMT

I have to analyse the following sentence, but I'm really stuck...

"Amanda's practical solutions of what had seemed an insoluble mystery descended on the family like a balm."

I have to cut this sentence into constituents and cut those up in nouns, verbs, adverbs, adjectives, pronouns, prepositions etc.
For now I have this:
'Amanda's practical solutions of what had seemed an insoluble mystery' = the subject of the whole sentence and is a Noun Phrase
'descended' = the main verb of the sentence,
'on the family' = a Prepositional Phrase
'like a balm' = a Prepositional Phrase

The two prepositional phrases don't give me any trouble (both start with a preposition, than have a determiner article and end in a noun).

The Noun Phrase is what gives me trouble...

'Amanda's practical solutions of what had seemed an insoluble mystery' has two constituents, I'd say...
'Amanda's practical solutions' = Noun Phrase
'of what had seemed an insoluble mystery' = ???
I really can't get beyond this point... How should I analyse this?

I really hope someone can help me with this sentence...