Search results for 'tag:Pronunciation tag:American English' matching tags 'Pronunciation' and 'American English'

Re: Newcastle accent?

Anonymous — Mon, 22 Sep 2008 01:06:08 GMT

I wouldn't necessarily recommend someone learning English to learn a regional accent at all - not even south-eastern or estuary English (and that's not because I am from Newcastle, and biased (although I am from Newcastle!).

People from different UK regions use different accents and dialects, and while some are regional, others are social. The kind of Standard English (SE) which people talk about is an example of a social form; it's the language of formal situations, education, news, and so on. People can use this dialect, and a local one interchangeably, depending on their situation - it's called code-switching, and is a phenonmenon common to many languages. While that is a dialect, Standard English does not have an accent, although for many people it is associated with Received Pronunciation (RP; sometimes known as Queen's or BBC English). In fact, SE can be spoken in any accent, and RP is the natural accent of only a tiny proportion of people in the UK.

For a learner of English, the choice of accent depends on how they will use English - whether they will live in the UK, or an English speaking country, for how long, and so on... Personally, I have never been in favour of 'neutralising' learners' accents, as it is part of their identity - although it is necessary for speakers to be understood clearly by others. There are also social and identity issues concerned with the use of local accents which, for learners, could cause problems or misunderstandings. By that I mean, for example, not everyone from Newcastle speaks 'Geordie' - part of the use of accents and dialects is concerned with how people are located (in terms of the social construction of identities) in their local societies.

If any English accent (or perhaps pronunciation is better) is to be learned for international use, the most effective may be a Standard American English one, for that is the most widely used.

Anyhow, this thread seems old - but thanks for making me think about this topic!

Cheers mara, whehey the lads, gan the toon an all that!!!

A dictionary

Anonymous — Fri, 25 Jul 2008 15:34:17 GMT

ãThis dictionary tells you about English words and how to use them in reading, writing and speaking English. It not only gives the meaning of words, it can also help you with spelling, word building, grammar and pronunciation.

ããTo use your dictionary correctly, you need to understand how the dictionary works. At the front of the book, you will find some exercises to help you make the most use of your dictionary.

ããIf you look up the word âcolourâ, you will find two spellings for this word. âColourâ is used in British English, while âcolorâ is used in American English. When such a thing happens, the dictionary shows it with the word âBrEâ for British English and âAmEâ for American English.

ããThe dictionay also helps you pronounce words correctly. It uses a special alphabet to show pronunciation. If you turn to the inside back face, you will see all the phonetic letters with some words to show you how they are pronounced. Just have a look this page when youâre not sure how to say a word.

ããThe most important reason for using a dictionary is to find out the meaning of a wordâits DEFINITION.

ããIn this dictionary, the definitions have been written using only 2000 words. This means that the definitions of even the most difficult words are simply explained and easy to understand.
ããWhen a word has more than one meaning, read all the meanings until you find the one that correctly tells the use of the word you are looking for

Questions about flapping and glottalisation.

Lincoln Punch — Mon, 21 Jul 2008 14:42:32 GMT

Hello. I'm a student from Korea (South) trying to learn English based on received pronunciation. And it's kind of hard because everyone here tries to learn American English.

Here goes the questions:

1. I reckon Americans often use 'flapped d', but it seems that British people don't flap 'd' sound as much as Americans do.
Is it considered 'lazy' to flap 'd' pronunciation in British English? Like, when you say 'had a', or 'bad eighties'.

2. How about flapping 't' sound in one word? i.e., little, bottle...

3. Using glottalisation is THAT bad? I know it's originated from Cockney accent but I love the sound when 't' is glottalised.
If I glottalised the 't' sound when it's in end of the word, for example, 'I got a', 'about it', would I be considered as a 'lazy' speaker?

4. Am I using 'reckon' properly? :p

Sorry for asking so many questions, but I'm a very curious student.

Thanks for reading. Have a good one!

Re: fair-haired

Kooyeen — Wed, 21 May 2008 20:03:07 GMT

Pter
Do you know which accent is chosen by MW as the reference in the pronunciation keys. Is it General American?

No idea. The audio files comes from several different speakers, but I think I've always heard "accentless" pronunciations from MW. So I guess it might me General American, generally speaking.

Pter
Certain combination of sounds just do not exist in English and that's why they don't need to use diacritic to indicate that the P in SP is non-aspirated whereas an initial P is aspirated. The bottom line is that the pronunciation keys have to be non-ambiguous. This is the same reason why they don't need to use diacritic to indicate tapped intervocalic T or final dark L. (Clear L at syllabic final position does not exist.)

Well, you say it's non-ambiguous because you know that a certain T has to be tapped, a certain P must not be aspirated, a certain L should be dark, and so on. You know that certain combinations are not common or not possible at all in English, and you avoid them. Then what's wrong in pronouncing MW's combination /er/ the way it should be, as you do with all other combinations? The only difference is that the way it should be depends on your accent, and there is more than one acceptable way to produce that combination.

Pter
As a result, using / er / in American English to represent the counterpart of the British English / e / is non-ambiguous after all!

Yep, exactly, but it wouldn't have been ambiguous anyway... unless you expected dictionaries to always give a "perfect" transcription, corresponding to a specific accent. Since there is often more than one neutral accent and way of pronouncing words, dictionaries give more general transcriptions that can usually be adapted to your accent.

Pter
Kooyeen, many thanks indeed for discussing this issue with me. Without your insights, I would not have been able to find out the underlying issues that has been troubling me.

No problem... but remember I'm not an expert, lol. it's just that I once had your exact same problems with transcriptions. I had no idea how many different accents and acceptable ways of speaking there were. There are really a lot, and finding out general rules that apply to every native speaker is basically impossible.

Pter
It means that the Received Pronunciation that I have been learning (and indicated on all the dictionaries) is only that of the older generation! What a surprising finding from this simple question of fair-haired!

Heh, I know in the UK there are lots of interesting accents. Some people drop this, skip that, shift vowels here, put glottal stops there... Different accent in different places, different social groups, different age groups... It's so in the US too, and in other countries too, I guess. That's why the more I learn, the more I realize I have a lot to learn. But English is an interesting language, isn't it?

Re: fair-haired

Pter — Mon, 19 May 2008 10:02:06 GMT

Yes, there are regional variations in American English. Do you know which accent is chosen by MW as the reference in the pronunciation keys. Is it General American?

My problem is that, as I have mentioned before, they are indeed denoted differently in British English. The first one is a simple vowel while the second one is a diphthong / e /. The question is whether the diphthong / e / ONLY occurs before an R. If it occurs before some other consonants, such as D, L, T, N ( / -et /, / -el /, / -ed /, / -en / ), using / er / to indicate a different sound from / e / is not a good idea because you'll have problems showing the differences between / -et /, / -el /, / -ed /, / -en / and / -et /, / -el /, / -ed /, / -en / respectively.

Certain combination of sounds just do not exist in English and that's why they don't need to use diacritic to indicate that the P in SP is non-aspirated whereas an initial P is aspirated. The bottom line is that the pronunciation keys have to be non-ambiguous. This is the same reason why they don't need to use diacritic to indicate tapped intervocalic T or final dark L. (Clear L at syllabic final position does not exist.)

I did a search in my pronunciation dictionary and found that the combinations / -et / and / -el / do not exist. / -ed / and / -en / only exist when the spelling has an R between / e / and the following consonant. Since British English is non-rhotic, the corresponding American pronunciation would have an R before that consonant, resulting in / rd / and / rn /. So, / e / ONLY occurs before an R! As a result, using / er / in American English to represent the counterpart of the British English / e / is non-ambiguous after all!

After going through all these discussions, I finally found out the reasons.

Kooyeen, many thanks indeed for discussing this issue with me. Without your insights, I would not have been able to find out the underlying issues that has been troubling me.

EDIT:

It appears that / e / was the result of the influence of the following R sound on the / e / sound. It is therefore actually the equivalent of / er / in American English. However, because British English is non-rhotic, the R influence results in the / e / becoming a diphthong, i.e. a schwa is added after the / e / to become / e /.

EDIT 2:

While adding the above EDITed text, I just found that what I guessed was probably right.

http://www.bl.uk/learning/langlit/sounds/text-only/received-pronunciation/london/

The vowels of youth
Listen first to the vowel sound she uses in the words air, there, their, where, somewhere and parents. In traditional forms of RP, they would be pronounced with a diphthong â that is two vowel sounds. Older RP speakers would start with an <e> sound â as in bed â before drifting into a weak vowel rather like the initial sound in about. This type of pronunciation, also applied to words such as dare, hair and bear, was until relatively recently common in many English accents. The diphthong emerged once speakers began to omit the <r> sound at the end. Speakers throughout the UK once pronounced this <r> sound, but it is increasingly restricted to speakers in the West Country and far South West of England, a small area of Lancashire and most of Scotland and Ireland. It is also present in most US English accents. The <r> sound was initially replaced by the weak vowel at the end of the diphthong, but nowadays most younger RP speakers omit this final part of the diphthong and simply use a long <e> sound â thus shared is pronounced with exactly the same vowel as in shed, only the vowel is noticeably longer. This demonstrates perfectly how successive sound changes can radically alter the pronunciation of a set of words. Most RP speakers, like Michelle, now only distinguish between pairs such as fairs and fez or flared and fled simply by vowel length. Older speakers tend to use a diphthong for the first word in each pair.

It means that the Received Pronunciation that I have been learning (and indicated on all the dictionaries) is only that of the older generation! What a surprising finding from this simple question of fair-haired!

Re: fair-haired

Pter — Fri, 16 May 2008 15:33:51 GMT

Thanks, GG. Now this is absolutely confusing to me. I always had problem with reading the pronunciation keys for American English. British pronunciations have long been standardized on IPA. Why can't American English dictionaries use IPA??? The symbols in Merriam-Webster is different from that of American Heritage. And who knows how many different sets of symbols are used by different American English dictionaries? The worst thing is that my Cambridge Pronouncing Dictionary uses a mix of IPA with a bit of these non-standard American symbols for showing American pronunciations!

I think the pronunciation keys in Merriam-Webster are just plain WRONG! It says

\ \ as a in abut
\ \ as u in abut
\ \ as e in kitten
\ r \ as ur/er in further

\ e \ as e in bet
\ \ as ea in easy
\ \ as y in easy

(Barbara, where in the pronunciation symbols page says "er" is the same sound as "air"? There is no entry for \ er \ on that page!!!)

I mean this page --> http://www.merriam-webster.com/pronsymbols.html

Am I mis-reading the symbols? Or Americans really say the vowel in bet exactly the same as that in hair??? They are obviously different in the voice recordings in Merriam-Webster.

In British English, they are two different vowels.

? ? ? ? ? It is driving me nuts!

Re: tune: When (tÅ«n, tyÅ«n)?? dipthongs

Kooyeen — Tue, 13 May 2008 21:18:23 GMT

I think it's possible, but not as common as the other, generally speaking. In some regions it's definitely used, I guess. Merriam-Webster lists those pronunciations too.
By the way, are you checking the pronunciation in American Heritage and related dictionaries? If so, be careful... American Heritage's audio clips don't sound very good to me, and I don't think they reflect a true modern American pronunciation. Merriam-Webster is the best and the most reliable by far for American English, in my opinion.

Re: How to pronounce asked?

Kooyeen — Sun, 13 Apr 2008 19:48:38 GMT

I wanted to mention that, that some people axe questions. It's a feature of some dialects (for example it's found in African American English). Merriam-Webster lists that pronunciation, saying it's dialectal.

Re: How do you pronounce "L.A." as in Los Angeles?

Kooyeen — Mon, 17 Mar 2008 20:46:35 GMT

Grammar Geek
Kooyeen, if I'm going to LA, I don't go to eh-lay.

Hi,
you are making a distinction between eh-lay and ell-ay, which is actually important, even though in American English sometimes it's not a big distinction (I think in some cases the actual pronunciation is somewhere in between). Well, I usually take that distinction into account, and in this case I would say it's eh-lay. Unless it's something regional or something I don't have a clue about yet, LOL.
Hmm. Now you got me thinking. It's your fault! I am thinking that I probably change the way I say such things depending on how fast I try to say them. Look at these: the first is the carfully pronounced one, the other is what comes out in normal (pretty fast) connected speech.

I sell aprons
I seh lay pruns

So I realized that I only say ell-ay if I try to pronounce it carefully and slowly, keeping the the letters in L.A. separate.
What do you think?

Tapped T sound?

hjyguy — Wed, 12 Mar 2008 00:47:55 GMT

Hello people,

I have a American English pronunciation question that has been nagging me forever. I've asked several natives in person but to no avail as of yet.

The question is, when you pronounce a tapped T, where the syllable is unstressed (e.g., Water, Butter, Hitter, ), what is the correct way to pronounce the "T"?

Personally, I have been pronouncing it by tapping the tip of my tongue on the ceiling of my mouth, somewhere around the middle, BEHIND the bones protruding behind the teeth. I do the same thing to pronounce the letter "D" or "T" in words such as "Middle" and "Little".

In contrast, I pronounce "D", as in "Harder" or "Infinity", by tapping the tip of the tongue ON the back of the front teeth AND ON the bone right behind it.

So, in sum, I tap my tongue a litter farther back on the ceiling of my mouth to pronounce the likes of "Water" than I would to pronounce the likes of "Harder or Infinity". This may be because I want to pronounce more clearly the "D" sound for words such as "Infinity" than I would "Water".

So, if all this makes sense to any one of you, I would greatly appreciate your thoughts on my inquiry. Thanks.