Search results for 'tag:Sentence structures tag:Tenses' matching tags 'Sentence structures' and 'Tenses'

Re: Is "There is the ..." an exceptional use?

jazzmaster — Fri, 08 Aug 2008 22:27:58 GMT

CalifJim

Probably not. There may be a better way to finesse this with a different wording.
Yes, but from the viewpoint of the authors and the teacher, this may be considered a harmless "white lie".
Out of curiosity, does the book actually use the words, "serious grammatical error"? Or is that your impressionistic paraphrase?

Thanks CJ

"Serious grammatical error" is my paraphrase. But when and if ESL students start to expressly state "this IS an exceptional usage", I suppose that means "these is a set rule on this and no one can break that in any shape or form".

"the simplification of the grammar at the beginning makes it much easier for them to navigate the language with confidence in the beginning stages" ... I fully concur with your view here. This indeed is the ideal way of teaching something to someone, I would say. However, the reality is that they will soon start feeding what a SVOC is, along with modifier/qualifier, the difference between a relative pronoun and adverb and all that good stuff to students who even cannot pronounce the word "English" correctly yet. I have an impression that they do present "grammatically acceptable" sentence structures, rock-solid rules and what not all at once. It is not a fun way to learn a foreign language. That is why some students grow not to like the subject after short while.

Let's say you are in a store with a hardcore grammatical ESL student, and you say:
*&@!#% !! I just realized I left my wallet home!!
... in stead of saying "It's all right, CJ, here, take $100. You can pay me back tomorrow.", (granting that he/she understood what you said), the ESL student will be too busy thinking "Why did he not say "I HAD left my wallet"? Because he is describing an event that happened obviously prior to the moment "he realized", it should be the past perfect tense, thus "I HAD left". It could be an exceptional use of the "realize ... that ...." structure but I am not sure. Or should I just point out his grammatical mistake?" ... this is the mentality of students who are being taught by those hardcore grammar books, and I am not exaggertating even a bit.

Thanks.

Re: Simple Past Lesson Plan

Mister Micawber — Fri, 04 Jul 2008 04:22:11 GMT

.
Oh, I can always find something else (but I may have messed up your formatted columns):

Lesson Plan

Preparation

Level : Elementary

Lesson Length: 45 minutes

Objective: To be able to use the Past Simple question forms and short answers.

Target Language: did + subject + base form of verb ( Did your mother call you? )

Question word + did + subject + base form of verb ( What did you do last night? )

Short answers:

Yes + subject + did ( Did it rain? Yes, it did.)

No + subject + didn't ( Did Helen come to the party? No, she didn't. )

Assumed knowledge: Past Simple (regular / irregular verbs, negative form)

Anticipated problems:

Students may use a past form of the main verb to make the question instead of using the base form. E.g. Did you went?

Solutions:

During the presentation stage, draw students' attention to the fact that 'Did' does not change its form. 'Did' is always used to form the question in the Past Simple.(This is not true for the verb 'be' and sometimes the verb 'have'.)
Point out the verb tense in the question form. Did + subject + base form of the verb
Drill individually and chorally.
Practice making questions. Monitoring for errors and having students unscramble sentences

can also help to work on sentence structure problems.

Preparation and Aids: Simple reading text ,dialogue, in the Simple Past, using vocabulary that

students are already familiar with. Handout for homework correcting sentences. Four pictures of people doing things.

Lesson Plan

Stage	Activity	Interaction	Timing
1	Warmer : Timed Scattergories (*spelling? I don't know this word) with pre-chosen* themes (food, things you do on the weekend, etc) Review homework from last class	TS ST	5 mins
2	Introduction : Have two students stand up for a moment to set the scene; elicit their names. Then they can sit down. Write them on the board. Hand out the dialogue between these two friends who are talking about their past weekend. (A dialogue that mostly contains vocabulary the students are familiar with)	TS SS	1 min
3	Have students read the dialogue and answer gist questions about it to check their understanding.	S ST	3 min
4	Ask students to focus on the language used by asking what question Â« A Â» asked Â« B Â». Write this question on the board.	TS ST	1 min
5	Presentation : Show students how it is formed Did + subject + base Did you have a good weekend ? Point out that we don't use the past form of the main verb in questions, but always the base (or dictionary) form	TS	5 min
6	Drill chorally and individually. Focus on pronunciation and correct structure.	TST	2 min
7	Elicit: Draw students' attention to the short answer and explain the positive and the negative structures. Yes + subject + did -- Yes, I did. No + subject + didn't -- No, I didn't.	TS
8	Drill chorally and individually and then conduct a controlled question-and-answer drill around the class : E.g : Â« Sandrine ask Didier...(point to an action on the board : - go to the restaurant / movies / market / bank / etc.) Â» Sandrine: Â« Did you go to the restaurant? Â« Didier: Â« Yes, I did. Â» etc.	ST SS	2 min 5 min
9	Pairwork : Students ask and answer questions from the board and note down their partners' answers. The focus here is on correct pronunciation and structure, so it is important to correct any errors by referring to the structures on the board.	PW	5 min
10	Controlled Oral Practice : Use dialogue text as a basis to talk about what the two characters did on the weekend. Also use visual support such as a picture of a restaurant to prompt questions. For example, show a picture of two friends having a conversation; encourage them to produce the following question : Â« Did they go to a restaurant ? -- Yes, they did / No, they didn't. Â» Give four picture examples as prompts.	TS SS TS	1 min 2 min
11	Monitor closely. Correct errors by using what's already on the board as a point of reference.	TS	1 min
12	If students are performing well, turn focus to what they themselves did on the weekend. They ask each other questions and give short answers.	PW	5 min
13	Follow up with controlled written practice. For example, use questions and answers in which the words are all mixed up ; students put the words back into the correct order.	S	5 min
14	Homework : a transformation exercise (changing affirmative statements into questions and short answers)

Re: Simple Past Lesson Plan

mzl14000 — Thu, 03 Jul 2008 15:57:02 GMT

Hello again,
Here is a cleaned-up version of my lesson plan. I'm an insecure wreck, therefore I dare ask for another look at my work...
Thanks again for the earlier help.
MZL

Lesson Plan
Preparation

Level : Elementary

Lesson Length: 45 minutes

Objective: To be able to use the Past Simple question forms and short answers.

Target Language: did + subject + base form of verb ( Did your mother call you? )

Question word + did + subject + base form of verb

( What did you do last night? )

Short answers:

Yes + subject + did ( Did it rain? Yes, it did.)

No + subject + didn't ( Did Helen come to the party? )

Assumed Knowledge: Past Simple ( regular / irregular verbs ,negative form )

Anticipated Problems:

Students may use a past form of the verb to make the question instead

of using the Simple form. E.g. Did you went?

Solutions:

During the presentation stage, draw students' attention to the fact that 'Did' does not change its form. 'Did' is always used to form the question in the Past Simple.
Point out the verb tense in the question form. Did + subject + base form of the verb
Drill individually and chorally.
Practice making questions. Monitoring for errors and having them put scrambled sentences

in order can also help to work on sentence structure problems.

Preparation and Aids: Simple reading text ,dialogue, in the Simple Past using vocabulary that

students are already familiar with. Handout for homework correcting sentences. Four pictures of people doing things.

Lesson Plan

Stage	Activity	Interaction	Timing
1	Warmer : Timed Scatergories with pre-picked themes (food, things you do on the weekend...) Review homework from last class	TS ST	5 mins
2	Introduction : Have two students stand up for a moment to set the scene; elicit their names. Then they can sit down. Write them on the board. Hand out the dialogue between these two friends who are talking about their past weekend. (A dialogue that mostly contains vocabulary the students are familiar with)	TS SS	1 min
3	Have students read the dialogue and answer gist questions on it to check their understanding.	S ST	3 min
4	Ask students to focus on the language used by asking what question Â« A Â» asked Â« B Â». Write this question on the board.	TS ST	1 min
5	Presentation : Show students how it is formed Did + Subject + base Did you have a good weekend ? Point out that we don't use the past form of the verb in questions, but always the base ( or dictionary ) form	TS	5 min
6	Drill chorally and individually. Focus on pronunciation and correct structure.	TST	2 min
7	Elicit : Draw students attention to the short answer and explain the positive and the negative structures. Yes + Subject + did Yes, I did. No + Subject + didn't No, I didn't.	TS
8	Drill chorally and individually and then conduct a controlled question-and-answer drill around the class : E.g : Â« Sandrine ask Didier...(point to an action on the board : - go to the restaurant - go to the movies ) Â» - go to the market - go to the bank Sandrine: Â« Did you go to the restaurant? Â« Didier: Â« Yes, I did. Â» etc.	ST SS	2 min 5 min
9	Pairwork : Students ask and answer questions from the board and note down their partners' answers. The focus here is on correct pronunciation and structure so it is important to correct any errors by referring to the structures on the board.	PW	5 min
10	Controlled Oral Practice : Use Dialogue text as a basis to talk about what the two characters did on the weekend. Also use visual support such as a picture of a restaurant to prompt questions. For example show a picture of two friends having a conversation ; encourage them to produce the following question : Â« Did they go to a restaurant ? Yes, they did / No, they didn't. Â» Give four picture examples as prompts.	TS SS TS	1 min 2 min
11	Monitor closely. Correct errors by using what's already on the board as a point of reference.	TS	1 min
12	If students are performing well, turn focus to what they did on the weekend. They ask each other questions and give short answers.	PW	5 min
13	Follow up with controlled written practice. I could use questions and answers where the words are all mixed up ; students put the words back in the correct order.	S	5 min
14	Homework : a transformation exercise (changing affirmative statements into questions and short answers)	S	2 min

Simple Past Lesson Plan

mzl14000 — Thu, 03 Jul 2008 11:40:33 GMT

Would anybody be kind enough to tell me what they think of this lesson plan I've made for my TEFL module ? Any suggestions ??
Thanks so much .

MZL

Lesson Plan
Preparation

Level : Elementary

Lesson Length: 45 minutes

Objective: To be able to use the Past simple question forms and shot answers.

Target Language: did + subject + infinitive form of verb ( Did your mother call you? )

Question word + subect + did + subject + infinitive form of verb

( What did you do last night? )

Short answers:

Yes + subject + did ( Did it rain? Yes, it did.)

No + subject + didn't ( Did Helen come to the party? )

Assumed Knowledge: Past simple ( regular / irregular verbs ,negative form )

Anticipated Problems: Students may use statements without using the auxiliary verb.

E.g. You went out yesterday? Instead of, ( Did you go out yesterday? )

Students may use a past form of the verb to make the question instead

of using the Simple form. E.g. Did you went?

Solutions:

During the presentation stage, draw students' attention to the fact that 'Did' does not change its form. 'Did' is always used to form the question in the Past simple.
Point out the verb tense in the quuestion form. Did + subject + infinitive of the verb
Drill individually and chorally.
Practice making questions. Monitoring for errors and having them put scrambled sentences

in order can also help to work on sentence structure problems.

Preperation and Aids: Simple reading text ,dialogue, in the Simple Past using vocabulary that

students are already familiar with. Handout for homework correcting sentences

Lesson Plan

Stage	Activity	Interaction	Timing
1	Warmer : Timed Scatergories with pre-picked themes (food, things you do on the weekend...) Review homework from last class	TS ST
2	Introduction : Using a picture of two young women, elicit from students their names. Write them on the board. Hand out the dialogue between these two friends who are talking about their past weekend. (A dialogue that mostly contains vocabulary the students are familiar with)	TS ST
3	Have students read the dialogue and answer specific gist questions on it to check their understanding.	S ST
4	Ask students to focus on the language used by asking what question Â« A Â» asked Â« B Â». Write this question on the board.	TS ST
5	Presentation : Show students how it is formed Did + Subject + Infinitive Did you have a good weekend ? Point out that we don't use the past form of the verb in questions, but always the infinitive.	TS
6	Drill chorally and individually. Focus on pronunciation and correct structure.	TST
7	Elicit : Draw students attention to the short answer and explain the positive and the negative structures. Yes + Subject + did Yes I did No + Subject + didn't No I didn't	TS
8	Drill chorally and individually and then conduct a controlled question and answer drill around the class : E.g : Â« Sandrine ask Didier...(point to an action the board : - go to the resaurant - go to the movies ) Â»	ST SS
9	Pairwork : Students ask and answer questions from the board and note down their partners answers. The focus here is on correct pronunciation and structure so it is important to correct any errors by refering to the structures on the board.	PW
10	Controlled Oral Practice : Use Dialogue text as a basis to talk about what the two characters did on the weekend. Also use visual support such as a picture of a restaurant to prompt questions. For example show a picture of two friends having a conversation ; encourage them to produce the following question : Â« Did they go to a restaurant ? Yes, they did / No, they didn't. Â» Give four picture expamples as prompts.	TS SS TS
11	Monitor closely. Correct errors by using what's already on the board as a point of reference.	TS SS
12	If students are performing well, turn focus to what they did on the weekend. They ask each other questions ans give short answers.	PW
13	Follow up with controlled written practice. I could use questions and answers where the words are all mixed up ; students put the words back in the correct order.	S
14	Homework : a transformation exercise (changing affermative statements into questions and short answers)	S

Having been stunned, being stunned,stunned

Hongkie — Fri, 28 Mar 2008 11:23:45 GMT

Having been stunned by the news, they burst into tears.

Being stunned by the news, they burst into tears.

Stunned by the news, they burst into tears.

1. Are the above sentences grammatically correct? If so, do they have the same meaning?

2. Is it true that the word "burst" here can be either past tense or present tense?

3. I believe that they are all in passive voice. What are their tenses? What are their sentence structure?

Thank you in advance.

Re: tenses

bernice.farrugia — Mon, 18 Feb 2008 10:27:34 GMT

1. ...have promised to inform people (the people?) about the beginning of the strike... - In this case both people and the people are accepted. The use of the makes your sentence more specific since it would be directly referring to the group of people who will be effected by the strike. However, it is not considered a mistake to keep your sentence general by not using the article the.

2. At dawn however railwaymen, breaking their promise, stop work without â¦ - I would keep it simple and simple say 'At dawn, however, railwaymen, breaking their promise, stop work without informing the public'. Do not forget that the first part of the sentence already includes a complicated sentence structure, so it makes more sence to simplify the structure of the second part of the sentence.

3. A lot of students are absent from (in?) my class.. - The correct answer is ...absent from my class...

4. Yeah. The railway company announced the beginning of the strike, as promised (as it had been promised?)... - The correct answer is...as it had promised. The subject of your sentence is THE RAILWAY COMPANY. Since you already have a subject you DO NOT NEED TO CHANGE YOUR SENTENCE FROM ACTIVE TO PASSIVE. IT refers to THE RAILWAY COMPANY and it should be followed by an ACTIVE verb -had promised.

Hope you find this information useful.

Re: Two question about "where"

Goodman — Thu, 07 Feb 2008 23:49:04 GMT

<<<<Such concepts as tense, gerund, participle, clause (and classification thereof) are wihtout a slightest doubt useful and sometimes even essential to the learning of English (at least, this is so for me).

<<<Furthermore, I try to undrstand things logically and find explanations for every problem so that I won't have to simply memorize things! - I agree with you. However, I see room for tone and structure improvements!

Without taking side, I would like to share my 2 cents' worth. I always feel that if one is not born an English speaking native and his ultimate goal is to be able to write and speak English like a master, he is in for a long-agonizing journey. I have been at it for 20 years and still painfully working on getting it perfect. I realize that I often made careless errors, such as missing an "s" here and there and misspellong word etc. That, I think is something I have to work on but is tolerable to myself, as long as I know my speech and sentence structure are gramamtically sound and the meaning is getting across. For learners, it's extremely benifitial to possess a good understanding on all aspect of English, but in real life I dare say, many are not in that category, including natives. Frankly, more than a few don't even know and could care less what "past perfect tense" is. I don't mean to antagonize anyone. That's how I see it. That's said, learners must in time learn to develop a balance in learning. By that, I mean learning the fundanentals and applying them gramamtically correct in their writing without suffering from the"unnatural" sound. What I see is, many learners are too focused on the grammatical aspects and neglected on structure and tone, or vise vera. Ultimately, their writing is often compromised. I have been there. Believe me!

(Unknown 22884)OHHH I FINALLY CAN POST!!!

Jen001 — Fri, 21 Dec 2007 01:51:40 GMT

"The Change of the Characteristics in the passage from The Hours"

The passage from the novel The Hours by Michael Cunningham is intriguing. The passage illustrates the difference between the character's characteristics in different time settings: past and present. This difference is clearly shown through the contrasting structure, imagery and language.

The structure reflects the division of the time setting and helps to contrast the different characteristics. The passage has two paragraphs, each describing the character's thoughts and perception about a same place, of the past and present. The length of each paragraph is different; the one from the past is much longer than the other one from the present. This can be related to each of the paragraph's sentence construction. In the first paragraph, about the past, the lengths of the sentences are very long. The first sentence takes eight lines, lengthened continuously within commas, semi-colons and colons. In fact, in one sentence, there are five commas, five semi-colons and a colon. This overly-continued sentence gives a sense of unfiltered, informal, and unrestricted flowing of thoughts. Moreover, the use of brackets, âsome sort of wood(cedar? Camphor?),â seems to be less sophisticated, compared to using dashes or other punctuations of the same function. However, in the second paragraph of the present, the sentence construction is shown contrastingly. The paragraph starts with a short simple sentence: âShe turns down Bleecker, goes up Thomson.â Also, in this paragraph, there are four sentences in six lines, and three of the four sentences are written in simple sentence, including the example above. Although there are a few commas in some of the sentences, there is no semi-colon, but only a colon in the last sentence. The colon is used in a very appropriate way, functioning to introduce the list of âthingsâ, such as âjewelryâ and âjackets.â Thus, within the brief and concise sentence construction, the character in the present appears to be more mature, filtered and sophisticated than in the past. However, as a result of that, the sense of youthful, unfiltered freedom cannot be found anymore in the present.

In addition to the structure, the contrasting imagery of each paragraph demonstrates further differences of the characteristic in the past and present. As both paragraphs are of the same setting, the image of the same place is described at each time. So, the consistent place makes the comparison between the two more distinctive and reliable. The imagery of the place is very vivid in the past, not only within the visual sense, but also within the auditory and olfactory senses, whereas that of the past only relies on the sense of sight. For example, in the past, âthe neighborhoodâ is depicted as âthe center of something new and wildâ in âthe city where the sound of guitars drifted all nightâ and âwhere the stores â¦ smelled the way â¦ Arab bazaars must smell.â This is detail, imaginative and lively, even the âArab bazaarsâ creates a somewhat mystical and adventurous atmosphere. This interesting and passionate depiction is being minimized in the present into three words: an âimitation of itself.â It is now âa watered-down carnival for tourists,â which gives a sense of inactivity and boredom. Also, the stores now âall sell essentially the same things,â such as âsouvenir T-shirts.â This seems to be dull, with no excitement or creativity or passion. This changed imagery, depicted by the character, rather shows the change in the character's perception. The change in perception is demonstrated more clearly within the notion of the âdoorâ and âalley.â In the past, she says, âif you passed through the wrong door or down the wrong alley you would meet a fate,â however, in the present, she âknows that behind these doors, and down these alleys lies nothing more or less than people living their lives.â In the past, she seems to be more concerned with the 'inner' world of thought or imagination. Whereas in the present, she seems to be more grounded in the external world of physical reality. As like the previously discussed change in the sentence structure, she is now more sophisticated, knowledgeable and realistic than the past. Also, as like the image of the place, her perception changed from the creative, interesting and adventurous to the boring, predictable and filtered way. Thus, the contrasting imagery of the past and present reflects the similar change in the character's perception.

While the structure and the imagery convey the distinctive change in the characteristics of the character, the contrasting use of language supports those differences. More specifically, the diction [dash]shown in the past and the present[dash] is comparable. Reflecting the imagery of the varied senses, the words and expressions used in the past are also varied and animated, such as âincense and richâ and âdung-y dustâ describing the smell of the stores. These two expressions, âincense and richâ and âdung-y dustâ are contrasting; they express the diversity of the object. Moreover, the speaker creates a non-existing adjective, âdung-y.â The extra adding of â-yâ grants a more animated image, and it gives a sense of freedom and even somewhat childishness. The âsmellâ is then described as âsomething fruitily, fertilely rotting.â Again, she creates a non-existing adverb, âfruitily,â expressing the scent rather vividly, which would be sour as it ârots.â The other adverb âfertilelyâ contributes to create a sense of abundance and richness of the imagery. However, the use of those two positive adverbs, modifying the negative verb ârottingâ seems to be oxymoron in âfruit[full]â or âfertile,â as well as the use of adjective âdisreputable,â following ânew and wild.â The oxymoron adds an unpredictable sense to the imagery and hence to the depicter's thoughts. On the other hand, in the present, the adjectives used to describe the âcityâ and the âstores,â are ânothing,â âless,â âsame,â and âstill.â All of them are negative and reflect the boredom, dullness and hopelessness. More significantly, the speaker uses the adverb, âGrotesquelyâ before describing how âthe same bars and coffeehouses are still [th]ereâ, showing the character's cynical characteristic. So does the use of the adjective âcheapâ for the goods at the stores. Thus, in the past, the character uses language interestingly [dash] it is diverse, lively and creative [dash] whereas that of the past is inactive, hopeless and cynical. These differences are directly reflecting the character's contrasting, changed characteristic.

The change of the characteristic seems to be abrupt. As a cause, something would have happened to her, that is not shown in the passage. However, an assumption can be drawn within the evidences from the passage. There is a shift in the first paragraph within âHere,â showing the shifted tense from the past to the past perfect. In the past perfect, there is a scene of Clarissa, the major character, and her boyfriend Richard. She seems to appreciate Richard a lot, for example, she does not use the pronoun 'he' for âRichard,â even though he is the only male character. So, in a sentence, Richard is successively repeated three times, âwith Richard, when Richard â¦ when Richard.â Moreover, she describes his appearance in detail; he âwas nineteen,â âa firm-featured, hard-eyed, not-quite-beautiful dark-haired boy with an impossibly long and graceful, very pale neck.â So, to describe Richard, she combines an adjective and a noun to create a single adjective, such as âhard-eyed.â This shows her seriousness about describing him precisely. His âimpossibly longâ and âvery paleâ neck would seem negative, if not for the complementary adjective âgraceful.â Also, the adverb âimpossiblyâ gives a sense of special and unusual feeling for the person. Besides the use of language, the use of punctuation should also be noted. There are many commas, causing the sentences to seem choppy. This would be imitating the feeling of uncertainty and the tension in the situation. The uncertainty of the situation is shown in the line, ââ¦about what? A kiss? Had Richard kissed her, or had she, Clarissaâ¦,â also the tension created as they âhad certainly argued.â Then, the reason for the âargu[ment]â is explained: âClarissa wanted her freedom and Richard wanted, well, too much.â It is notable that as Richard âwanted â¦ too muchâ relating to the âkiss,â the pronoun 'he' is used as âdidn't he always?â In this case, however, the pronoun 'he' seems to more likely indicate every 'man', rather than particularly âRichard.â Thereafter the paragraph ends, and the paragraph of the present starts. It is not sure whether the abrupt change in Clarissa's characteristic is due to âRichardâ or not. Although it is not, it is evident that Clarissa once considered and cared about him quite specially.

Despite of the uncertain reason, the change in the Clarissa's characteristic from the past to the present is shown clearly throughout the contrasting structure, imagery and language. The characteristic includes the thoughts and perception, which were unrestricted, unfiltered, creative and animated in the past; whereas in the present, they are shown restricted, filtered, dull and inactive. The change is extreme, but no particular evidence for the extremity is being suggested, except the short scene with Richard. Thus, this passage not only introduces the setting and the character, but also evokes the reader's curiosity: What has happened to Clarissa?

------------------------------------------------

I really really really appreciate for your help... Thank you..!

Re: Would've never

Goodman — Tue, 20 Nov 2007 22:53:46 GMT

Kooyeen,

If my comment meant anything , or for whatever it is worth, this is what I understand:

These 2 sentences are type 3 Conditional (past perfect conditional) . It doesnât matter where âneverâ is placed, meaning is the same. You will find # 1 more commonly used.

1) If you hadn't told me, I would never have found out.
2) If you hadn't told me, I would have never found out.
Etc.

1) What? I didn't steal it! I would never have stolen her wallet!
2) What? I didn't steal it! I would have never stolen her wallet!

This is the exception to the rules since âifâ is not involved in the sentence structure. This exception allows mixed tenses to be correctly and grammatically used.

Re: What's the last movie you've seen?

Goodman — Thu, 15 Nov 2007 08:33:52 GMT

ETJW-CMD wrote:

Dear Goodman,

I am one of Hoaâs friends, a member of a friendly yet private English-To-Join-the-World Club that we co-founded here in Vietnam. Last night, she showed me this thread and asked for my opinion. My first reaction was that the present perfect and past tense combination - in that particular example - is illogical. However, I could understand where she came from - It is not grammatical correctness but situational acceptability.

When we get together at our weekly meetings, we sometimes have a good, respectful laugh at the craziness and freedom of English language. Richard Lederer writes, âIn this unreliable English tongue, greyhounds arenât grey; a woodchuck is a groundhog; glowworms are fireflies, but fireflies are not flies (they are beetle)â and âhot dogs can be cold, darkrooms can be lit.â â¦ âSometimes you have to believe that all English speakers should be committed to an asylum for the verbally insane. In what other language do people drive in a parkway and park in a driveway?â

Such a free spirit coupled with the humors of poking at oneself is what makes the language and its people so wonderful to us.

Having said that, I must be fair to Hoa, whom I know of, is a rather sensitive and wonderful lady. I read the text from the sites that she shared - particularly the BBC site â and found out the reason why she selected it. On page one of the BBC text, we see, âWhat was the last film you saw?â and on page five, âthink of the film you have seen recently, what was it called?â The last one Hoa equated it to âwhat was the film you have seen recently called?â That is her way to express her âcoexistenceâ ideal: an ungrammatical sentence â but informally acceptable - can coexist with a prescriptive one.

Perhaps, the missing connection for all of us is the word recently, which goes rather well with the present perfect!

Thank you and Have a good day!
Chau My

Hello ETJW-CMD,

First, on behalf of the forum,welcome! I am not exactly sure the purpose of your post but I take it that you are speaking on behalf of Hao Thai. The particular sentence that touched off a rather messy debate was " what was the last film you have seen" if I am not mistaken. By the face value of this sentence, it's deemed ungrammatical in my opinion but as usual, there are always different views. What I said two postings ago which in some ways seemed to share something in common with your post, if I read it right. Nonetheless, I still believe that past tense and present perfect can't coexist in one single sentence. But they are possible in relative clauses. If we want to talk about the name of the movie you saw, we can say "what is the name of the movie you saw last week?" which is clearly a grammatically correct past tense sentence . But when we try to combine simple past with present perfect, such as "what was the name of the movie you have seen recently?", it just sounds awkward to most ears, although it may be understood. That said, I agree adverbs such as "since" and "recently" along with many others can reflect a present perfect tone. But "what was the name of the movie you have seen recently?" is still not a sound sentence.

Two postings ago I said:

_{There are plenty of instances where present perfect and simple past can co-exist, but not in the same frame of sentence structure. i.e. âwhen was the last time you have visited Disneylandâ? (wrong)}

_{If my English knowledge is correct, the following is a valid sentence. Not only it contains present prefect and past, it has a present reference as well.}

_{I have been to Disneyland with my family many times but I canât remember which year the last visit was.}_{This kind of mixed tense scenario happens}