Search results for 'tag:Simple past tag:British English' matching tags 'Simple past' and 'British English'

Re: Written english vs spoken english

CalifJim — Thu, 14 Aug 2008 17:24:45 GMT

Yankee
Depending on the personalities and experience of the teachers involved, that's probably the most likely time that someone might just blurt out "So-and-so said such-and-such incorrectly", don't you think?

I think my problem is watching too much Masterpiece Theatre. I'm so used to hearing British English that few of the differences even register anymore. I may be incorrectly attributing my reaction to that of others. The subtlety of the difference between present perfect and simple past, in many cases, such as those we've been discussing, is often lost on me, so my reaction is impatience. "What's the big deal?" I ask. "Just pick one and move on!"

Re: Present Perfect (americans)

Yankee — Thu, 07 Aug 2008 22:04:32 GMT

As is the case with British English, whether an American uses the simple present or the present perfect often simply depends on how the speaker is viewing a past activity. That said, when either tense is possible according to the "usual rules", I think there is a noticeable tendency for Americans to choose the simple past tense more often than our British cousins would. There are also a few well-known examples of American usage that probably drive some (but hopefully not all) Brits crazy. For example: "Did you eat yet?" and "I already did that."

The problem with quite a few of your sentences is that there isn't enough context in the sentences themselves (they're very short) and/or not enough broader context with them to say for sure which tense might be more likely in AmE. In a few of your sentences, you haven't really given what I think would be typical wording, so there really isn't much point in trying to say which tense would be used. For example, I can't imagine a doctor asking a patient in his office whether or not the patient had broken his/her arm. And I doubt that the sentences "I've changed my address!" and "I changed my address!" would be used to tell someone I had moved to a new address, so I would need more context there before I could give further input.

It may well be the case (but I don't know this for a fact) that in some cases where a Brit would definitely use the present perfect because there is an effect on the present, we might choose instead to use the simple present tense. If I take your broken arm example, an American might choose to say "I broke my arm last week" (focus on the past event) or "My arm is broken (focus on the current state -- the bone is not yet healed).

Maybe someone else will have some input for you.

Re: wrong to use past tense?

Mr Wordy — Sat, 19 Jul 2008 01:52:17 GMT

He bought a parrot that the seller said it would repeat every word he uttered. Contented, he went home ~~and~~ but later found it didn't say a word. Furious, he went back to the owner and asked him what had happened. The owner answered that he had not lied (didn't lie OK??) to the man.

The lying (or, in fact, absence of it) happened some time before the answering, so "had not lied" (or "hadn't lied") is correct. You might hear native speakers use "didn't lie" in this context, but it's sloppy (IMO) and you should avoid it.

He went mountain climbing. On the way up the mountain, he saw what looked like a box covered in golden paper in a plastic bag. He thought he had gotten (got OK??) something that is was worth a large sum of money but ended up finding there was trash in the bag.

US usage is "gotten" and UK usage is "got". The following is from a British English perspective. I'm not certain if this explanation is also true in Amercan English (with "got" replaced by "gotten").

"Have/had got", in the sense you're using it, is a slightly tricky one. Literally, "have got" means something like "at some point in the past, I got (received/obtained) something, and I still have it", so literally it's the present perfect. Similarly, "had got" is literally the past perfect. However, this sense is, to varying degrees, suppressed, so "have got" can function almost like a present tense (meaning "have"), and "had got" almost like a simple past tense (meaning "had"). In your sentence "had got" is correct (though I suppose "had found" might be better). It can either suggest that he obtained it some time before the moment you're describing, or it can just mean that he had it in his possession. "He thought he had something..." is also OK and replicates the second sense.

[I edited this a little while after posting it to fix a couple of minor typos that were annoying me.]

Re: "a" or "one of"

MarvinTheMartian — Sun, 20 Jan 2008 18:35:16 GMT

Thank you Yankee for your detailed answer, but I'm still hopelessly confused about when to use the present perfect and when to use the simple past. You brought up an interesting point about the differences between American English and British English. I wonder if a Brit would find it more natural to say "I've broken my arm" or "I broke my arm". Perhaps a few more examples will make it clearer for me. For instance, in the following dialogue, would you say "I took" or "I've taken":

A: Where's my favorite coffee mug? I can't find it. It's not in the cupboard.

B: I took it out / I've taken it out. It's on the table.

According to your logic, one might argue that the action of taking the mug out of the cupboard took place in the past, which would warrant the use of the simple past. However, the result of said action affects the present (the mug is out of the cupboard and on the table). Can both tenses be used here? Which one sounds more natural to you?

I know I sound punctilious, but this is very important to me. After years of conversing with non-native speakers who mangle the English language at every turn, I find I canât trust my own judgment anymore when it comes to expressing myself verbally.

Re: When to use "Have you...? " or "Did you..? "

Kooyeen — Tue, 03 Jul 2007 22:03:31 GMT

Hi,
welcome to Englishforums.
You can also use the search function to search the forum for interesting threads (there's a search button in the top right corner of every page).

I would use "did", not "have". The simple past focus on something that happened and keeps that action separate from "now". So I would say:
What was that (noise)? Did you knock on the door?

The present perfect can be used with words like "yet", "already", "ever", etc., and it does not give the idea of "separate from now" as much as the simple past. It can also be used to report news or other information, when you don't want to focus on the past moment:
President Buch has died. He died this morning at 7, etc.
Notice the first verb is a present perfect (focus on the news, the fact, not the past), and the second is a simple past, because you are pointing out the time he died (focus on the past, "sepatateness from now").

The difference between these two verbs is one of the most difficult things to learn for every learner, so don't worry, it just takes time. There are also some slight differences in usage between American English and British English. You might want to search this forum for info about this (there are a lot of threads), or read something in a good ESL grammar.

And as you can see, I'm not a native speaker of English, so you'd better wait for some better advice.

Re: Which words should I use?

Kooyeen — Mon, 04 Jun 2007 18:10:48 GMT

Yoong Liat wrote:
Please note that Michael Swan and other grammarians state what I posted earlier.

When you mentioned "grammarians" and "prescribe" earlier in this thread, I thought you needed a prescriptive answer, so I said maybe the past perfect is the preferred "prescriptive" verb to choose.

But the fact is that Practical English Usage by Swan is supposed to be a descriptive grammar (see the introduction), so it's strange that he says only the past perfect is ok. And that's why I said "unless that's true for British English"... If in British English the simple past instead of the past perfect is not used, then Swan is really describing English (but only British English).

I think we need a Brit (like Nona) now, if we really want to know what's acceptable in the UK.

Re: got/gotten

Yoong Liat — Thu, 17 May 2007 19:33:37 GMT

In American English, got is the simple past tense form of the verb get and gotten is the past participle.
I believe got is used for both in British English.

You're right. In BrE, it is get got got

Re: got/gotten

Anonymous — Thu, 17 May 2007 18:57:49 GMT

In American English, got is the simple past tense form of the verb get and gotten is the past participle.
I believe got is used for both in British English.

Re: Past Present Future tense of the word drag

Anonymous — Wed, 25 Apr 2007 17:38:51 GMT

[edit] Verb

drug

(US) Simple past tense and past participle of drag. You look like someone drug you behind a horse for half a mile.

[edit] Usage notes

In British English, this is incorrect; the correct past tense of drag is dragged.

Random House says that "drug" is "nonstandard" as the past tense of drag. Merriam-Webster once ruled that "drug" in this construction was "illiterate" but have since upgraded it to "dialect". The lexicographers of New World, American Heritage, and Oxford make no mention of this word.

[edit] References

Re: Always

CalifJim — Wed, 18 Apr 2007 03:16:09 GMT

I agree with Amy's comments.

True, the conceptual time-wall seems absent in some uses of the simple past. But I claim it's always there somewhere, lurking in the back of our minds.

[I've already seen / I already saw] that movie.
[I've never driven / I never drove] a car.
[I've never known / I never knew] how to use it.

For all of these three (above) I'd say it's a matter of personal choice, but the present perfect projects a slightly higher register.

Note that simple past patterns with never suggest firm denial in some contexts:

-- Why did you park in the handicapped spot?
-- I never parked in the handicapped spot. = I did NOT park in ...
-- I saw you there.
-- You never did, you liar! = You did NOT (see me) ...

In a similar way, I never knew how to use it seems a firm enough admission to express it as I never did know how to use it. (It's true; I don't dispute it; I admit it.)

-- You're messing up the paper feed again. You don't seem to understand how this printer works.
-- Well, it's a dang nuisance. I never did know how to use it. / I never did learn how it works. / I never did bother to find out how to use it.

And in the firmly assertive.

-- How come Jane got a raise, and I didn't?
-- She saved the company millions of dollars last year.
-- I don't believe it. You always [liked / did like] her better than me.

I have no idea if these usages occur in British English, but I suspect that they may be very typically American substitutes for the present perfect.

CJ