Search results for 'tag:Singular verbs tag:Compound subjects' matching tags 'Singular verbs' and 'Compound subjects'

Re: learning grammar - When, Why, etc...

Grammar Geek — Mon, 22 Oct 2007 17:41:58 GMT

I can only tell you my experiences as a parent.

My older daugher is 10. This year, she brought home papers in which she had to identify things like the simple subject, the complete subject, the simple predicate, the complete predicate, etc. She also had exercises last year on whether something was a predicate nominiative or predicate adjective. (Personally, I find these rather pointless.)

However, I was lucky enough to spend a good amount of time in her "language arts" classes last year (as a guest editor) and found that the emphasis is in coherent writing, a logical flow to the writing, etc. The students would do peer editing for things like capitalization, puncturation, and subject/verb agreement. Then final drafts are given to the teacher who includes corrections on the mechanics of grammar as well as the content of the essay. If several students seem to make the same type of mistake, the teacher would review - for example, rules about capitalization.

I haven't yet observed things like "None always takes a singular verb" or "Make the verb agree with last subject when you have a compound subject joined by 'or' " so I don't know if that is past, or future, or simply assumed and corrected as writing pieces are turned in.

However, my daughter was easily able to recite when you use "I" or "me" yesterday when someone (not me!) asked her about it.

I've been impressed with the teaching so far - the emphasis has been on being able to clearly communicate your ideas, but it doesn't allow for sloppy mechanics in fnal versions either.

Re: The subject

Grammar Geek — Sun, 24 Dec 2006 02:25:55 GMT

Before you go too far, Mr. P, would you care to comment on the side issues that has come up? The use of a singular verb when there is a compound subject of gerunds or abstract nouns?

Re: Parallelism with articles

Mister Micawber — Fri, 29 Sep 2006 05:36:50 GMT

If the author views them as one set, then s/he will use is, yes.

However, whether it is accepted by the reader (who may be the essay teacher) is another matter. Fundamentally, all 'rules' of the language (as here in the case of a compound subject) depend on an understanding and agreement between producer and receiver. If it is reasonable to both that operation and behaviour/functioning (which I now see, thanks to Clive, are all actually synonymous, so that our compound subject is in fact redundant) are a single set, then the singular verb works; but if the writer thinks they're a set while the reader does not envision them thus, then communication has (to a slight extent at least) failed, and the reader takes it as confusing or incorrect S-V concord.

Re: compound subjects and singular verb..

davkett — Sat, 30 Jul 2005 12:45:41 GMT

The more I think about it, Sharad, the more I want to conclude that, 'Hydrogen and oxygen is needed to make water' is also correct--perhaps even preferable in the right context.

Thank you for the question.

I invite master Mister Micawber to stay joined.

Re: compound subjects and singular verb..

sharad — Sat, 30 Jul 2005 10:55:27 GMT

Thanks Mister Micawber and davkett.. I think i need some time to get used to this usage..For I learnt a bit grammar, i sometimes start wondering if such usages are correct in first place.. Unfortunately, my limited grammar exposure often leaves me confused ..

Re: compound subjects and singular verb..

davkett — Sat, 30 Jul 2005 01:39:44 GMT

Hi MrM,

I can see the difference you've pointed out on the 'colleague and friend' example, but I'm wondering why such an example cannot be called a compound subject. Certainly 'colleague' and 'friend' don't refer to two people here, but they do refer to two separate identities (concepts, nomenclatures, functions?). What are the parameters for calling something a compound subject? Why are not two identities shared by one person considered a compound subject? (Maybe, I should re-read "Dr. Jeckyll and Mr. Hyde" with a new eye.) Does having a separate category here have ramifications for grammatical structure?

Re: compound subjects and singular verb..

Mister Micawber — Sat, 30 Jul 2005 01:18:48 GMT

The short answer is 'yes', Sharad.

Peanut butter and jelly is my favorite snack.
The salt and pepper is right next to you, fathead.

In your example 'his colleague and friend', and friend is not part of a compound subject, but has another grammatical name/function that slips my mind at the moment (probably 'restricitive appositive').

Re: compound subjects and singular verb..

davkett — Fri, 29 Jul 2005 23:24:56 GMT

A relevant question in this case.

The answer: Hydrogen and oxygen are needed to make water.

The reason: hydrogen and oxygen are separate elements and can be combined differently to make other compounds. Hydrogen and oxygen make water only when combined as H20. The chemical elements of hydrogen and oxygen are needed for many things, only one of which is to make water.

One might loosely say, perhaps in a specific context: two molecules of hydrogen and one of oxygen is water

Re: compound subjects and singular verb..

sharad — Fri, 29 Jul 2005 22:56:05 GMT

you say - hydrogen and oxygen are needed yo make water.

you don't say - hydrogen and oxgen are needed to is needed to make water

Re: compound subjects and singular verb..

davkett — Fri, 29 Jul 2005 21:30:12 GMT

Hi Sharad,

The whole idea behind a compound subject is that the various elements of the compound are bound together as a single grammatical entity, just like Hydrogen and Oxygen combine to make water.