Search results for 'tag:Subjunctives tag:Tenses' matching tags 'Subjunctives' and 'Tenses'

Re: there had to be

CalifJim — Tue, 19 Aug 2008 07:23:43 GMT

pructus
a past tense subjunctive referring to the present, like, "You could be right."

This is a modal construction (could), not a subjunctive.

Here's a subjunctive (underlined): It is important that you be right.

I'm not sure what you're asking, I guess.

Re: there had to be

pructus — Tue, 19 Aug 2008 07:14:00 GMT

Thanks...

I see..

Then, understanding it as a past tense subjunctive referring to the present, like, "You could be right.", meaning "There should be one time that you do not get it." is impossible?

Watching dramas or movies in English, when a friend tries to give a high-price gift, then her friend says, âI couldnât takeâ or âI couldnâtâ.

Also, âCould you be more queer?â is meaning that the listener is(not was) very queerâ¦.

Here, in these two cases, âcouldâ definitely is referring to the present situation, so it is understood as a subjunctive, not simple indicative.

Therefore, I assumed this paragraph from Harry Potter could also be a subjunctiveâ¦â¦

Re: there had to be

CalifJim — Tue, 19 Aug 2008 06:57:38 GMT

pructus
âThere had to beâ .. Is it simple past tense as an indicative or is it a present tense as a subjunctive?

My subjunctive scouts have returned empty-handed.

Consider that a true subjunctive in a main clause is not found in English, certainly not the past subjunctive. It's the simple past indicative tense.

there had to be

pructus — Tue, 19 Aug 2008 05:55:11 GMT

Following is from âHarry Potter and the Prisoner of Azkabanâ. The situation is that Harry Potter failed in the Quidditch game for the first time.

Harry put his face to his knees, his hands gripping his hair. Fred grabbed his shoulder and shook it roughly.

âCâmon, Harry, youâve never missed the Snitch before.â

âThere had to be one time you didnât get it.â said George.

âThere had to beâ .. Is it simple past tense as an indicative or is it a present tense as a subjunctive?

Re: (on) next Sunday

Mr Wordy — Sat, 02 Aug 2008 23:00:25 GMT

Anonymous
Thank you. Does your explanation assume that it is reported speech??

I guess so.

Anonymous
Sentence as corrected by you:
She said she would call me when she ~~is here~~ arrives.

Actually, this wasn't so much a "correction" as a "room for improvement" (as Abil asked for). "is here" is not actually wrong; it just sounds better to me with "arrives". I should have noted that.

Anonymous
So, if something is further away in time a present tense after a subordinate clause started by 'when' is possible. Does that apply to a subordinate clause started by 'if' , 'after' ?

I think Iâd ideally use the subjunctive with "would" and the present tense with "will":

She said sheâd call me if she decided to come.
She said sheâll call me if she decides to come.

However, in practice I might deviate from this ideal from time to time!

Re: Using the past to refer to future

Mr Wordy — Sat, 26 Jul 2008 17:56:04 GMT

I am not the world's greatest expert on the technical analysis of conditional statements, but FWIW here are my thoughts.

"Were" here is not the past tense, if that's what your message title is referring to. It's a subjunctive.

1) ... are you planning to go to *** Museum with your friends? -- Fine.

2) ... were you planning to go to *** Museum with your friends? -- Fine; more cautious/polite/uncertain.

3) If you are going to *** Museum tomorrow... -- Fine.

4) If you were going to *** Museum tomorrow... -- Doesn't sound quite right to me. My guess as to why this is so when #2 sounds OK is that "planning to go" shifts us into the present, near present, or even past, while "going" here is definitely referring to the future (but this has nothing to do with "were" being the past tense; here it's not). Thus, "What would you do if you were going to the shops and suddenly..." seems OK because "going" is now just timeless hypothetical rather than future. If I wanted to use subjunctive "were" with a future sense of "going" then I would say "If you were to go to *** Museum tomorrow..."

Re: should have done

Mr Wordy — Tue, 15 Jul 2008 12:41:07 GMT

"Should" can be used with "if" to indicate a hypothetical future action, or a past action that might have happened but didn't, without any "ought to"/"supposed to" implication (I think this is a subjunctive use, but grammatical terminology is not my greatest strength!). To me, this usage is formal, or, especially in the past tense, old-fashioned. Typical examples:

If you should see her, tell her I miss her = If you see her, tell her I miss her

If he should try to sue me, he'll regret it = If he tries to sue me, he'll regret it

And, as you say,

Now if she should have done so - would we have been charged twice? = If she had done so ...

If he should have done this, they would praise him. = If he had done this, they would praise him.

As far as your other examples are concerned:

If Y2K should have done one thing it would be to teach customers the dangers of being tied to a software provider who could say "oh yes we know, tough ***, upgrade for $1M". I'm not sure it did.

To me, this has the "ought to" meaning: Y2K ought to have done this, but it probably didn't. I'm inclined to this interpretation because of "I'm not sure it did", and also because the rest of the sentence is not written in the formal/old-fashioned style that I'd expect from someone using "should have done" in the other sense.

If anyone was too good to die, it was Jesus. If anyone should have done greater things than walking dusty roads and talking with people too dense to understand him, it was Jesus.

I'm not sure what the author means here. I naturally read the "ought to" meaning: he ought to have done greater things, but he didn't. But it seems an odd thing to say.

Re: when past perfect is necessary?

Marius Hancu — Mon, 14 Jul 2008 02:49:52 GMT

He looked as if he had seen a ghost.

This is more complicated, because he had seen in this context is not past perfect indicative, but past perfect subjunctive mood here (they have the same form)

Read my posts in that thread:

Re: as if + backshift

where I'm saying among others:

Some prefer to concentrate on the mood here, and forget about the sequence of verbs, because when you have modality around, the tenses/timing are a bit mudied .... and I think that's a reasonable point of view.

Re: favor

Avangi — Sat, 12 Jul 2008 01:58:07 GMT

New2grammar
Avangi, are you saying that's the reason "had" must be used?

I'm saying that you have choices, depending on what you wish to convey. You can look at "urgency" as being in your mind, or as being a factual circumstance. If you wish to imply that the asking and the urgency were contemporary, they should have the same tense, unless, as Marius suggests, you wish to use the subjunctive because of the "if."

- A.

Re: would prefer

CalifJim — Mon, 07 Jul 2008 18:21:55 GMT

Subjunctive.

to be:

Present affirmative:

I be / you be / he, she, it be / we be / you be / they be

Present negative:

I not be / you not be / he, she, it not be / we not be / you not be / they not be

Past affirmative (negative):

I were (not) / you were (not) / he, she, it were (not) / we were (not) / you were (not) / they were (not)

to come:

Present affirmative:

I come / you come / he, she, it come / we come / you come / they come

Present negative:

I not come / you not come / he, she, it not come / we not come / you not come / they not come

Past affirmative:

I came / you came / he, she, it came / we came / you came / they came

Past negative:

I didn't come / you didn't come / he, she, it didn't come / we didn't come / you didn't come / they didn't come

_______

You can use any subjunctive after would rather or would prefer.

I would [rather / prefer] (that) he [go / not go / went / didn't go] to meet Mr. Brown.

I would [rather / prefer] (that) my husband [come / not come / came / did not come] with me for a holiday.

The Pentagon would [rather / prefer] (that) the plan [be / not be / were / were not] considered together with war funding.

He would [rather / prefer] (that) she [stop / stopped] calling him "Pacman".

___

I have no scientific evidence for it, but I believe the present subjunctive tenses occur more often with prefer, and the past subjunctive tenses occur more often with rather. Nevertheless, you will hear these in various combinations almost indiscriminately.