Search results for 'tag:Translation tag:Subjunctives' matching tags 'Translation' and 'Subjunctives'

Re: pool the ignorance

Marius Hancu — Sun, 25 Nov 2007 08:20:49 GMT

1. Put together our respective ignorance(s).

2. Were is subjunctive mood here, and describes a hypothetical situation, considered in the past. See GG's translation.

Re: without 'will' ?

CalifJim — Fri, 09 Nov 2007 08:39:35 GMT

Regarding to "will help you"... That's incorrect too... It would be a lot easier if you were brazilian or spanish because this way I could explain why to you with a translation

You are proceeding from the point of view that only Spanish and Brazilian Portuguese have chosen the correct tenses to be used in certain situations!

It seems that you don't know that each language has its own pattern of usage. The correct tense for a given situation is different from language to language. There is not one correct way to determine the correct tense for a given situation. What is correct for a given thought depends on which language you want to use to express it.

Spanish and Italian use the past subjunctive after if, for example, whereas French uses the imperfect.
Spanish uses the present subjunctive after (most cases of) when (and other adverbial conjunctions of time), whereas French and Italian use the future, and English uses the present indicative.

Many of the world's languages do not use the subjunctive at all. Its use in English is somewhat limited compared with other European languages.

CJ

Re: without 'will' ?

Marcelinx — Fri, 09 Nov 2007 02:56:48 GMT

That doesn't soud like present simple to me. Present simple is used for opinions and beliefs, but "hope" expresses neither and opinion nor a belief. It expresses a WISH. And with a wish, you can only use one verb tense: Subjunctive. Most people don't know this verb tense, because it's very unusual and strange. Why? Because in this verb tense, you don't say he/she/it helps - you say he/she/it help. That's right. I'm a 100% sure the guy from Lost used subjunctive. And why did he say "helps" and not "help"? Because it would have been very formal, and they were in an informal situation, I guess.
So don't memorize hope = present simple, because it's not even true. And don't memorize hope = subjunctive. Memorizer this: WISH - subjunctive, because this way, you'll always know if the verb requires this verb tense.
It's very unusual that people in this community told Kooyeen and you that this is present simple when it's actually subjunctive. Even so, you shouldn't use subjunctive with your friends - it's very formal. Just use simple present, but remember it is incorrect, because it isn't used for a wish.
Well, I certainly hope he help you.
Regarding to "will help you"... That's incorrect too... It would be a lot easier if you were brazilian or spanish because this way I could explain why to you with a translation. Well, if anyone here is spanish or brazilian, I'll give you a very believable and convinceable explanation of why you use subjunctive and not future simple or present simple:

OjalÃ¡ Ã©l muera. CIERTO presente del subjuntivo
OjalÃ¡ Ã©l morirÃ¡. NO ESTÃ CIERTO futuro simple
OjalÃ¡ Ã©l more. NO ESTÃ CIERTO presente del indicativo

Lo que ocurre es que en inglÃ©s, el subjunctive es solo el presente del subjuntivo.

Tomara que ele morra. CERTO presente do subjuntivo
Tomara que ele morrerÃ¡. NÃO ESTÃ CERTO futuro do presente
Tomara que ele morre. NÃO ESTÃ CIERTO presente do indicativo

O que ocorre Ã© que em inglÃªs, o subjunctive Ã© sÃ³ o presente do subjuntivo.
______I hope this help____
Please correct me if I'm wrong, but first, google the word subjunctive before you say I'm lying.

Re: Is this subjunctive?

CalifJim — Fri, 15 Jun 2007 19:54:20 GMT

In Spanish, (which has a clearly defined subjunctive,) the verb "to be" would always take the indicative in that context as it is merely a description

Bokeh,
Actually, it would be the same as in English; it's a case of a requirement: that ballots be printed, not that they are printed. The translation will have something like: ... que las papeletas se impriman ... (subjunctive). The verb to be would not likely occur in the Spanish version, but if it did, it would be the subjunctive sean: que ... sean impresas. Being located in a descriptive phrase has nothing to do with it.
But, as you correctly say, this is not the place to discuss Spanish, so all I can suggest is that you ask this question on a couple of Spanish forums, and see what they say there. PM me if you find out anything interesting!

CJ

Re: What is a Holy war?

Alexa For Australia — Sun, 27 May 2007 16:16:48 GMT

So I'm not quite sure how your comments about him represent a "challenge" to my view of him. And as I've already said, your "corrected" view of Richard III is itself quite conventional.

Mr. Pedantic:

I wasn't challenging your point of view about anyone. I haven't got the least idea about your points of view, so how can I challenge any? I'm Spanish, not stupid. But I forgot that second person plus subjunctive in Spanish does not translate as second person plus indicative in English, but to "one, anyone, someone" plus indicative. The meaning changes, so you rightly took my statement as a challenge to you.

It wasn't.

"My" corrected version is not mine, of course. There are two versions of the story, Thomas More's and Horace Walpole's. If you don't count William Shakespeare's, mind you.

It was just an statement trying to prove that a biased version can survive in History for a very long time without anyone questioning it.

Badly worded, but then, that is to be expected, of course.

My choice of words is poorer than yours, and you can destroy my arguments with one word. English is your native language, but not mine. My points are easily lost in translation.

But it was a challenge all right, the last paragraph at least. For me. I am pleased that you took so much time and space discussing with me. It improves my English.

Re: a case of the subjunctive?

Marius Hancu — Thu, 14 Dec 2006 03:13:31 GMT

"Translation":

Therefore we will not fear, even if/though the earth should/would give way and the mountains should/would fall into the heart of the sea.

see various versions with "should" here:
http://bible.cc/psalms/46-2.htm

Re: sunbjunctive....again!!! I'm sorry :-(

CalifJim — Thu, 21 Jul 2005 03:54:35 GMT

Be careful with cross-language discussions of the subjunctive! Not all languages use the subjunctive in the same circumstances. Some of the English translations are meant to be suggestive and helpful in a general way - not models necessarily of good or natural English grammar. The more natural English translation of the Spanish subjunctive, for example, is often a "for ... to ..." clause.

His ambition is for his son to become president.

But translating it that way doesn't help reveal the structural qualities of the Spanish version, so the less natural phrasing is actually more helpful to the student of Spanish, even if awkward as a native English utterance.

CJ

Re: Subjunctive mood in English

MrPedantic — Fri, 29 Apr 2005 00:47:58 GMT

Your comments interest me, Recusant.

Take the subjunctive forms of 'facio', for instance:

faciam
facerem
fecerim
fecissem
fiam
fierem
factum sim
factum essem

What equivalents should we provide, in English translation, if we wish to convey the semantic effect of the subjunctive without resorting to archaism?

MrP

Re: Possessive before a gerund.

MrPedantic — Tue, 12 Apr 2005 00:04:56 GMT

I'm not sure whether the 'possessive + gerund' structure was preferred by English teachers, when native grammar was taught to the natives. I suspect that it was, if only because Fowler devotes so much space to it. But I would guess that most of those who produce written BrE for public consumption these days picked up most of their knowledge of grammar in French and Latin lessons. I wonder whether this in itself has made the 'fused participle' seem more acceptable. (Sometimes the construction has the feel of a translation from the Latin.)

Are there other aspects of English usage that have surprised you, since you moved here? On this forum, for instance, use of the subjunctive and plural verbs with collective nouns have often caused a certain amount of heated AmE/BrE discussion. It's intriguing sometimes to see how the 'older' usage has been preserved in the US.

As for Stanley Matthews...yes, BrE â we have probably passed each other in the street some time!

MrP

Re: Conditional sentense in a past tense with generalized subject

souroin — Mon, 28 Mar 2005 05:57:02 GMT

Hello Paco, first

I think Jim mentioned that part because I sometimes write back saying 'il mio maestro' - actually am not an italian though, I very much like the sound of it. I did studied. I am now rather embarrased with the fact that I gave him my profile incorrectly by saying something in Italian. I just liked it and although not conveying at all obviously but for me 'il mio maestro' carries bit august sounding. I might change it to 'my Lord' then.

and... Hello Jim, my Lord

Thanks for your effort to understand what my question was. I found your explanation as difference of subjunctive and indicative understandable. So, ambigious it sounds but you say the quoted phrase can include two meanings.

The phrase was in a study report referring to what the concerning part of the code of conduct set out in the study protocol. I thought the person wrote the translation just switched the tense from present to past, and then wondered if that quote may sound 'indicative'. The rule were to apply any study subjects when any of these subjects would develop an adverse event(s), so if the sentense has to be in clear language, the 'subjunctive' paraphrase should be the choice, but again as you suggested the original quote can say both, I will just leave the sentence as it is then.

I thought the quote in present tense sounds alright for the protocol language but in report language just merely shifting the tense to past may sound bit awkward as it may say like referring to a certain but nonspecific subject even the study completed and it must have been already known by then if there were so I'd rather say in 'subjunctive' phrase... but it was just my lack of English sense.

And... sorry if I have been unintentionally 'deceiving' you about my nationality but your comparisons to italian language as examples in the past were also helpful.

Best regards,
Souroin