Search results for 'tag:Universities tag:Clauses' matching tags 'Universities' and 'Clauses'

Present perfect/simple past in since clause

Viceidol — Thu, 24 Jul 2008 15:17:59 GMT

Hello, everyone:

I've asked a question in http://www.englishforums.com/English/QuestionAboutTenseUsageSinceClause/gwxpb/post.htm , but I find out there are more than I need to ask, so I think it would be better to write a new post.

Recently I saw several sentences using simple past and present perefect in their since clauses. They are really confusing to me. I really hope you could help me comfirm their meaning. It may be very easy for you, but I've been wondering what their real meanings are for many days and couldn't find a clue. Please take a look at the following sentences:

1. It's a long time since he has lived there.

2. It's a long time since he lived there.

3. It is already 6 years since he have lived in New York.

4. It is already 6 years since he lived in New York.

I think those four sentences suggest "He doesn't live here/in New York now.", right? If my understanding is true, then please see the next pairs of sentences:

5. She has written to me frequently since I have been ill. (Does it suggest "I am still ill now"? If not, what does it suggest?)

6. She has written to me frequently since I was ill. (Does it suggest "I am not ill now."? If not, what does it suggest?)

If my understandings about sentence 5, 6 are right, then I think that's very tricky. Because sentence 1 and 3, which also use "have done" in their since clauses, suggest the same as sentence 2 and 4, which use simple past in their since clauses. However, although sentence 5 also uses "have done" in its since clause like sentence 1 and 3 do, sentence 5 does not suggest the same thing as sentence 6 does. Why is that? Is it because sentence 1, 2, 3, 4 use "It is + a period of time" structure? If so, I would be very amazed that simply a minor change like this would completely change the meaning of "have done" in the since clause. What do you think?

Here are some similar pairs of sentences:

7. Since she has been at Beijing University, it has gone through great changes. (I think it suggests "She is still at Beijing University now", am I right? If not, what does it suggest?)

8. Since she was at Beijing University, it has gone through great changes. (I think it suggests "She is not at Beijing University now", am I right? If not, what does it suggest?)

9. It's already 5 years since he has been in the army.

10. It's already 5 years since he was in the army.

I think sentence 9 and 10 both suggest "He is not in the army now", am I right? (Because "It is + a period of time" structure is used in the main clauses.) If not, what does it suggest?

11. They have been happy since they have lived in London. (I think it suggests "They still lives in London now", am I right? If not, what does it suggest?)

12. They have been happy since they lived in London. (I think it suggests "They don't live in London now", am I right? If not, what does it suggest?)

13. It's a long time since they have lived in London.

14. It's a long time since they lived in London.

I think sentence 13 and 14 both suggest "They don't live in London now", am I right? (Because "It is + a period of time" structure is used in the main clauses.) If not, what does it suggest?

I know those questions might be a piece of cake for native speakers, but they're totally confusing to me. I've searched all my grammar books for the answer but couldn't find one. I would appreciate it if you could help me solve my doubt. Thank you for reading this post!!

present in a past-setting narrative

Anonymous — Fri, 11 Jul 2008 03:36:47 GMT

Hi,

I am having trouble getting a firm grasp of the working of putting present-time clauses in a story or narratve that flows in past tenses -- which meant to tell something that has occurred in the past. I know if something still holds true or if something is a "universal" truth element, then the use of present tenses in midst of all past tenses is fine, I need your help in getting a concrete understanding of application part of it. Can you use some simple examples that might be used in such contexts to show me how it is done?

I went to university in *** and there, I saw this person named John. I have a weakness for an sports star and he was a well-known sports star, known to have won metals in international competitions.

Re: The Coca Cola company

Cool Breeze — Wed, 11 Jun 2008 07:56:54 GMT

MaverickK
The correct answer is D. But I still can not understand why is A incorrect?

I think you have encountered a grammar "expert" who has very strong opinions about correct usage and little understanding of anything or anyone who disagrees with him. I once met a British teacher of English, an Oxford University graduate, who thought this is the only way to do it was wrong. In his opinion only this is the only way of doing it was correct. Everyone is entitled to his opinion, of course.

Any good grammar book and/or grammar expert will tell you that after the verb demand both the present subjunctive and should are correct in a that clause:

He demanded that I gravel the sidewalk. He demanded that I should gravel the sidewalk.

please correct my answers

Anonymous — Fri, 14 Mar 2008 06:24:05 GMT

Fill the blank with suitable clause and also put punctuation where necessary.

Mary wants a car which is affordable.
NSW University is an open university where everyone is welcomed.
We need a leader whom has a unique character.
Donât trust anyone who you have just met.
A person who violates the law has to deal with the consequence.
The room was filled with flowers which were ordered by Jen.
Mr. Peterson, whom lives in our neighborhood, is a famous lawyer.
The red purse which my sister bought is quite expensive.
Songkran Festival, when there is water splashing everywhere, is Thai New Year.
Pete, whose wife is a superstar, used to be the top-seeded tennis player.

Re: understanding financial agreements

Lawyee — Mon, 07 Jan 2008 11:08:08 GMT

Hi, try to start with Ian MacKenzie: Financial English in Use published recently by the Cambridge University Press. This can help you if you have a problem with terminology. If you have a problem with legal institutes, try something else.
By the way, if you have a problem with understanding certain contractual clauses, feel free to send it here and there are many wise people in this Forum who will help you to understand it (they have helped me as well and I am thankful for that). There are also lawyers here, so you will surely get professional advice.
Concerning your terms - mandate letter is a certificate empowering a person (mandant) to act in the name and on the account of the empowering person (mandatary). It is also called a letter of attorney
due dilligence reports - report about the financial state of a company (usually before a merger or restructuring of a company)
certificate of indebtedness - paper proving that a person or a company has no finances to repay all its obligations

This is only a brief explanation (maybe you do not need it either). Hope it will help you

Appeal letter agains School decision

Anonymous — Fri, 21 Dec 2007 17:15:48 GMT

Hi there, i need someone to correct my letter of appeal against the School of Medicine's decision. They have denied my appeal to repeat my second year. Now i have to appeal to the university board to fight against the Medical school decision. I think my letter need to be arranged in more focused way ( other than the grammar mistakes). But i dont know how should i arrange the content. thankzzzzzz.

Dear Dr Bridge,

I received the School of Medicineâs response on 12 December 2007. The response stated the Progress Committee did not consider the financial problems that I faced were significant enough to cause me to fail the exams. But in my situation, this is one of the problems that affected my performance greatly.

Due to miscommunication with my sponsor, I have to pay an overdue accommodation bill with my own money amounted to Â£3636.00. For the local students the amount Â£3636.00 may not be a large amount, but for an international student like me, coming from a developing country and a poor family, it is a very great amount to pay.

Because of the debts, I was very stress thinking how to settle it quickly as it is not common in my country. I was scared that I will get into trouble with the authority if I cannot pay the bill on time. When I asked for advice from the Accommodation Office and the Account and Admission Office they told me I have to pay it before the new academic year or I will be penalized. This made me more anxious about the overdue bill because I only have a few months left to pool more money and pay the bill.

I was confused what I should do to settle the debt. I was also engulfed with worries about the implications to the continuation of my studies at that time. The suitable plan that I can think of was to work to gain more money quickly in order to prevent the problem from getting worse and to ensure I can put my focus back on my study. I sacrificed my time and energy to find a suitable job that did not clash with my classes and my religion. I managed to get paid by helping the Indonesians do their chores, but these jobs had used up my study time. So after I have finished with my work, I still have to stay up late at night to do my revision and finish my assignments. I franticly juggled my life between study and works to ensure that I can get at least a pass in my second year assessments while solving the financial problems. This has created a chaotic and stressful situation which caused me unable to concentrate on my studies.

At last, I managed to pay the overdue bill with help from some Indonesian students who lent their money to me. But they constantly demanded me to pay back their money as soon as possible. I was intimidated and restless with their demands, which force me to continue working despite of realizing that my performance is poor in the second year exams. I had to continue working to settle this debts with them as soon as possible so I can focus more on my revision for the exams. I was also worried they will report to the authority because they could not get their money back.

Furthermore, finding jobs and working for the Indonesians have left me less time to do academic work and caused me more tired when I try to catch up with my studies. I could not concentrate on my works which caused my poor performance because my mind was occupied with all the worries and problems I had to solve. This is the first time in my life to be battered with such intense manifold of problems and I felt totally worn out.

Since March 2007 I have to endure all the nonstop difficulties and the peak of all these problems is when I was preparing for the Resit Integrated Summative Examination. My worries about my family, my financial problem and the resit examination had built up a tremendous weight in my mind. I felt very stressful and confused what else should I do to settle this. All of this has taken away my concentration and my focus on my studies which caused me to fail the exam.

On 11 September 2007, on my own initiative I asked for a meeting with Dr Holland at about 3.00 p.m. after I get my Integrated Summative Examination Resit result. Before I met him I did not know about the Progress Committee meeting will be held on the next day, 12 September 2007.

When I met Dr Holland, he told me that the meeting will be held tomorrow and he said I can send a letter explaining about my circumstances to the committee. In that chaotic situation, I was tense and nervous thinking what will happen to me if I cannot continue in Medicine. I was in stress thinking about my financial problems and confuse how to tell my parents and sponsor body about my situation now. At the same time, I was worried thinking about motherâs health and how she will cope with my problems and my failure. My ability to talk to Dr Holland in English has been greatly affected by the intense situation when I explained about my situation and worries, which he noted in his report. At that moment I was confused what I should tell him first. After the meeting, at about 4.00p.m., I had to hasten to write the letter explaining the reason that affected my performance to the Progress Committee Meeting. It is hard to explain the full impact of my financial problems because I only have less than a day to prepare the letter just before the Learning and Teaching Office closed on that day.

Dr Holland told me to send the letter to the Learning and Teaching Office so that they can put the letter in my file for the committeeâs use in the Progress Committee Meeting. I have less than 3 hours to explain everything which is not enough. In Dr Connell report on 14 September 2007 also supported that I have limited time to explain everything during that time. I can only give the letter and the overdue bill to support my reason within that short time because the School of Medicine did not told me about the meeting earlier.

Plus, the School of Medicine sent a letter informing me about my failure in the resit examination and my case will be discussed in the Progress Committee meeting to my house address in Indonesia. The letter dated 6 September 2007 and arrived at my house on 15 September 2007. I was at Liverpool and did not know about the letter until my parents called me on 15 September 2007. I have informed verbally to Kathy , the Examinations Co-ordinator on 28^th June 2007 that I will not go back to Indonesia because I have to prepare for my resit examinations. I confirmed with her that any letters should be sent to my room address in Liverpool. She did not send the letter informing that I failed the Integrated Summative Exam and have to resit the exam on 15 August 2007 to my house address in Indonesia. I was surprised when I realized that the letter from School of Medicine was sent to Indonesia despite of my notification that I will stay in Liverpool during the summer holidays.

On top of my financial problems I have had other problems. Throughout the second year I had been worrying about my mumâs health because her health is gradually deteriorate. Plus, I have not gone home for almost a year and I really concern about my motherâs health which drive me to have the urge to see her, especially during the resit exams. I did not mention this in my letter for the Progress Committee as I had no evidence to back it up. The lack of evidence was because I found out about the meeting so late on 11 September 2007 and did not have time to gather evidence.

Now I knew that I should have told Dr Connell on 28^th June 2007, after failing Integrated Summative Examination and Biomedical Science, about my financial and family problems. But during that time the situation did not permit me to disclose everything to her. When I went to met her on 28^th June 2007, one of my friends was also waiting to meet her because he failed the exams. We both were called into Dr Connellâs office. I could not talk about my problems in front of him because with all the stress I have to endure I will shed my tears when I started talking about it. I feel humiliated if he sees me sobbing in front of Dr Connell. This will further crumbled my confidence and self â esteem which has already been affected by the continuous problems. Therefore, I just use the same reason he told Dr Connell that being active in society has affected the performance in exams.

I have tried to meet Dr Connell again for a personal consultation to tell about my real problems but she was not in her office. I do not have much time during the day to meet her again because I have to work to pay back the debts. My time during the day has already occupied with the jobs to gain more money. When I reached my room I was very exhausted and need to revise and catching up with my studies. I also had several sleepless nights due to the work to settle my financial problems.

As a result, I decided to cancel my initiative to meet with Dr Connell because I was occupied with my work and my problems. Besides, I realized my financial problems will get worse if I do not focus to settle it as soon as possible. I was not informed that I have to told her about any reason of my failure because it can help the committee to discuss about my case. So at last, I felt that my idea to meet with her will never change my situation and I should focus on my financial problems before my resit examination. If I am aware of the mitigating circumstances I will by hook or by crook persisted with the meeting with Dr Connell. Plus, if I had a personal consultation with Dr Connell, I am sure the committee will have everything they need even before the resit examination.

Many School of Medicineâs staff, only after I was recommended to leave the Medicine course, told me that I should tell them earlier about my problem. They point out that the clause is written in the MB ChB Study Guide handbook. I have read through the handbook before but when I am facing with the problems, I was indulged with the problems and I did not have time to look thoroughly in the handbook, so I missed the point about the mitigating circumstances. In addition, the problems kept on building up in my life causing me to feel distress while struggling to solve the problems quickly before it get worse. My direct solution was to seek help from people who can give financial aid for me to pay the bill. Unfortunately, I am not aware that my tutor, Dr Cooper, should be informed with my problems.

When I am writing the letter to the Progress Committee, I am not sure what kind of evidence that the Progress Committee needed when I submit the letter to the Progress Committee. I have the evidence to support my reason but the evidence could not be obtained in a very short time because I need to collect them from my sponsor and my parents. I knew about the Progress Meeting a day before it was held. I was not informed earlier about the meeting and was not called to support my reason of failure. After I failed the Integrated Summative Exam, I did not have the chance for a personal consultation to state my reason of my failure. During the consultation also I was not informed that if I have any reason for failing the exams I should give the reasons and provide relevant documents as evidence to be use in the meeting.

I did not expect that the Progress Committee will sympathize to any problems that student face and my problems can help the committee to consider giving me a chance to repeat second year. From my understanding the committee will look only at the academic results to decide. I am not familiar with the system which is different from my country. I also did not believe that the information I gave is not sufficient for the committeeâs consideration to let me repeat the second year.

Now all the problems have been solved and I am fully prepared to continue my study in Medicine course. I do not have to worry very much about my mother because she has joined a support group at the hospital. I have discussed with my parents and I promised to tell them about any problem that I face because I do not want this situation to happen again in my life. I have felt the effect of not telling the right people and I will take that as a big lesson for my future. I have consulted with my sponsor about my scholarship and they agreed to continue my scholarship when I repeat my second year. They also have guaranteed there will be no more problems with my feesâ payment in the future and they feel upset with what had happen to me. I have a meeting with the Government of Indonesiaâs representatives to discuss about this situation. They also will give full moral support to me to continue my studies in Medicine at University of Liverpool. It will not be a waste if I were given an opportunity to repeat my second year and with the support from School of Medicine I will achieve better performance to make them proud of my success.

Third Conditional

Df2006 — Tue, 27 Nov 2007 16:04:56 GMT

I saw the following third conditional sample sentences from an educational webpage:

1. If I had not gone to university in Spain, I would not be bilingual.

2. If you had attended the training seminar, you would be familiar with the new operational procedures.

3. If we had not felt we could trust each other, we would not be partners.

4. If we had ordered the equipment last week, they would be here now.

Please can anyone confirm if these are correct?

I always thought the verb pattern for third conditionals should be:

(if clause) past perfect tense; (main clause) would/could/should + have + past participle

For example:

1. If I had not gone to university in Spain, I would not have been bilingual.

2. If you had attended the training seminar, you would have been familiar with the new operational procedures.

3. If we had not felt we could trust each other, we would not have been partners.

4. If we had ordered the equipment last week, they would have been here now.

Thank you very much.

Re: Is 'As such' used wrongly?

Hoa Thai — Wed, 21 Nov 2007 22:18:31 GMT

Dear Goodman,

When I wrote "you could be right though!" I meant about the removing of the 'but' in "The store does not sell books as such, but it sells magazines ..."

As I said in my first post, I don't use as such at all. The reason is its repetitive nature hiding behind as such. If I have to rewrite "I am an English teacher, and as such I ...", I would write, "Being an English teacher, I ..."

After I saw your example about the '100 parts', I did not think it was the same as what I'd learned from the book. However, I did attempt to search examples on Internet to find out if people often use the as such phrase as you think it could be used. Here is what I found from 'language log' archived by the University of Pensylvania:

"It all starts with phrases of the form "As <descriptive noun phrase>, <modified noun phrase> <has some relevant property>":
As a parent, I found this book highly informative.
As a policeman, he's expected to inform the FBI, but instead he becomes a bounty hunter.
Sometimes the descriptive noun phrase has already been used in a previous clause, and to avoid repetition, the anaphor such is substituted."

I also found the use of as such is rather controversial through various writings by highly acclaimed writers. After reading the posts for this thread, I can see that clearly - even among a small group of people who can teach me a lot about English do disagree.

If you believe your way of using as such to refer to a noun-like expression - treated like a descriptive noun phrase - no matter how obscured it is, you must have agreed with its grammatical nature. Then it is a confirmation that ESL learners should take to heart.

Since Clive think we should move on, I don't know if I can find out from him why he thought that 'Anon' was me - I wonder?

Best Regards to all,
Hoa Thai

Re: inclusion vs. separation (present perfect and simple past)

Ant_222 — Sat, 17 Nov 2007 19:51:41 GMT

Hello, Hoa Thai.

Although Goodman outstripped me and deserved the brave one's laurels, I'd like to add some of the comments which I had started typing yesterday in the university, but hadn't time to finish...

Your reasonong is interesting but not fault-less.

«As CalifJim clearly explains in one of his writings, simple past represents time specificity; while present perfect serves time non-specificity (i.e., sometime in the past, including the recent time frame). Obviously, âspecificâ and ânon-specificâ cannot be the same.»

There's more to these tenses than this specifity/non-specifity dichotomy. I really prefer to do use actuality (connection of the action, or of a result there of, to the present) as the main (but not the only) difference.

This famous rule requireing Past Simple when a time is declared follows from it, because declaration of time indicates the speaker's focus on time rather than result.

«However, in terms of time, a ânon-specific time setâ does (Ant: I'd say "may include") include a âspecific time elementâ»

Don't get you.
1. In 1999 (is it specific?)
2. Since last month (specific?)
Which includes which?

«In addition to that, we all know a ânon-specific recent pastâ does not include a âspecific far pastâ â distinctively, the former is younger than the later.»

Is the word "far" so important?

1. We have been friends since 1995
2. I found it two minutes ago.

«In comparing to âthe lastâ - âthe bestâ or âthe worstâ is quality-based and time-unbiased â none or more are before it and none or more are after it;»

But only the word "last" deals with time. Is that an important difference?

«However, the superlative âtheâ does indicate a uniqueness, so when it happens, the time involved is specific!»

Yes!

I had started commenting this paragraph but suddenly found that your following paragraph tells the same:

«âWhat was the best movie you have ever seen?â means âAmong all movies you have seen, which one was the best?â - and that must be logical and natural since âall movies you have seenâ covers the time you saw the first one to the time you saw the last one (time non-specific) and âthe bestâ associates with one point in time (time specific). Time inclusion is in play.»

Fully agree, but asking "which one is the best" is also OK, and then it's not an inclusion...

«Can we interpret âWhat was the last movie you have seen?â to mean âAmong all movies you have seen, which one was the last?â»

From the standpoint of formal logic, yes. I don't completely understand Goodman's opinion that "among" may allow for several alternatives. There can be only one last movie (unless one's watching several movies simultaneously...)

If not, would âWhat was the last movie you have ever seen?â (âeverâ is added) allow us to carry out the similar interpretation?»

Well, as Goodman already said, "ever" doesn't work here. But it would work with "the best", "the most scary", e.t.c. Again, I don't understand Goodman's comment: «"Last" is an adjective, but not a comparative adjective» â they all are superlative adjectives, aren't they?

âWhat was the last movie you have seen?â

Using your logic, it does seem correct, but somehow I can't accept it. The very structure of this sentence with Past Simple in the main clause somehow forces a conflict with the Present Present in the subordinate clause.

The "was" in the main clause imposes a past time frame onto everything subordinated to it.

-----------------------------------------------------------

«As you might have noticed, even a reputable site like BBCâs teaching English, which I cited earlier in our previous thread, posed the question in a different way: âThink of a film you have seen recently, what was it called?â»

It's a pretty good sentence. They probably want the reader to focus on his/her impressions of the movie and they use Past Simple to help him/her "travel" back in time! It's neither bad nor an exception. I'll even say it's a nice example of your term "inclusion".

I wound't like "... what is it called" at all in this case!

Re: simple past vs present perfect

CalifJim — Tue, 13 Nov 2007 21:28:18 GMT

... ~~her~~ his help.

<<Are the books we ordered/have ordered used by any other university here?

Simple past or present perfect or both with different meanings?

It seems to me that discourse grammar forces the use of "have ordered" because the question is in the present and the following phrase "we have ordered" that describes the books should be in the present too. No, not necessarily; the verb order is in a subordinate clause describing the books. The use of the books by other universities can be a present state of affairs even though the books were ordered years ago.

Compare: The people we met last week are now waiting in the lobby of the hotel. >>

To my ear the present perfect is actually somewhat anomalous here (though not entirely wrong). If "we" ordered the books, we know when we ordered them. The ordering took place at a specific and known time. These factors argue for the use of the simple past. There would be nothing inconsistent in the meaning if we added a time reference, thus: Are the books we ordered last [week / month / year] used by any other university here? There is no question here -- no doubt -- about the fact of the ordering of the books.

But if there were some doubt about whether the books had been ordered, the present perfect, which is indefinite about time, might be more appropriate: Have you ordered the books yet? Yes, and the books we have ordered will be delivered to us by the end of the week. The underlined portions remain indefinite about the time of the ordering because the main point here is to find out (or to confirm, in the answer) that the event has taken place, not when.

CJ