<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8" ?>
<rss version="2.0" xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/" xmlns:slash="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/slash/" xmlns:wfw="http://wellformedweb.org/CommentAPI/"><channel><title>Search results for 'tag:Verbs tag:Log in' matching tags 'Verbs' and 'Log in'</title><link>http://www.englishforums.com/search/pro.htm?q=tag%3aVerbs+tag%3aLog+in</link><description>Search results for 'tag:Verbs tag:Log in' matching tags 'Verbs' and 'Log in'</description><dc:language>en-US</dc:language><generator>CSMOD (Build: 3260.39585)</generator><item><title>Re: Inversions in reported speech</title><link>http://www.englishforums.com/English/InversionsReportedSpeech/gqxzp/post.htm#583880</link><pubDate>Wed, 05 Nov 2008 06:21:57 GMT</pubDate><guid isPermaLink="true">946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:583880</guid><dc:creator>CalifJim</dc:creator><description>OK.&amp;nbsp; Now I understand what you mean.&amp;nbsp;&lt;img src="http://www.englishforums.com/emoticons/emotion-1.gif" alt="Smile" title="Smile" /&gt; &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;These are in free variation when you are writing dialog in a narrative.&amp;nbsp; You can invert some and leave others uninverted, just for variety.&amp;nbsp; In either case, leave the adverbs at the end.&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;i&gt;&amp;quot;....&amp;quot; said Robert with a smile.&lt;/i&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;i&gt;&amp;quot;....&amp;quot; Robert said with a smile.&lt;/i&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;i&gt;&amp;quot;....&amp;quot; shouted Lucy impatiently.&lt;/i&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;i&gt;&amp;quot;...&amp;quot; Lucy shouted impatiently.&lt;/i&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;CJ&amp;nbsp;</description></item><item><title>Would</title><link>http://www.englishforums.com/English/Would/gcjcl/post.htm</link><pubDate>Wed, 14 May 2008 13:32:57 GMT</pubDate><guid isPermaLink="true">946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:513598</guid><dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator><description>&amp;nbsp;&lt;font color="#ff0000"&gt;This is Rotter again.&amp;nbsp; I don&amp;#39;t know why I can&amp;#39;t log in to the forum. This has been a problem for me for a while.&lt;/font&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;--&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;1.I would weigh 75-80 kilos if I start eating chocalates, candies, etc. [ At the moment I weigh 60-62 kilos.] &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;I have learnt from Marius to use the auxiliary verb &amp;#39;would&amp;#39; in hypothetical sentences.&amp;nbsp;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;The first sentence indicates a hypothetical situation, in my book.&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;Is it correct? Does it indicate hypothetical situation?&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;--------------------&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;&amp;nbsp;</description></item><item><title>Suggestions for Improving Grammar on Site</title><link>http://www.englishforums.com/English/SuggestionsImprovingGrammarSite/zlcxg/post.htm</link><pubDate>Mon, 04 Feb 2008 14:47:48 GMT</pubDate><guid isPermaLink="true">946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:472470</guid><dc:creator>Grammarfixerupper</dc:creator><description>&lt;P&gt;Hello:&lt;/P&gt;
&lt;P&gt;I am new to the site (was led here by a search engine) and&amp;nbsp;am&amp;nbsp;surprised to see a number of grammatical errors in and around the site in general.&amp;nbsp; I haven't looked everywhere, but below you will find a list of the ones that I noticed right off the bat:&lt;/P&gt;
&lt;UL&gt;
&lt;LI&gt;The site mistakenly uses, in many&amp;nbsp;places (including the welcome e-mail),&amp;nbsp;"login" and "logout"&amp;nbsp;as verbs; however, the verb is two words: "log in" or "log out."&amp;nbsp; The noun/adjective can be one word, but never can the verb.&amp;nbsp; In other words, it would be correct to say that "I log in at the login page."&amp;nbsp; Many sites are guilty of this offense, including those of major corporations.&amp;nbsp; The real test is to put the verb in the past tense.&amp;nbsp; You wouldn't say that "She loginned yesterday" (one word).&amp;nbsp; Rather, you would say that "She logged in yesterday" (two words).&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp; Other&amp;nbsp;common misuses (though not necessarily seen on this&amp;nbsp;site)&amp;nbsp;include pickup, checkout,&amp;nbsp;and rollover.&amp;nbsp; 
&lt;LI&gt;The paragraph on the main page needs some commas (which I've added between asterisks):&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/LI&gt;&lt;/UL&gt;
&lt;P&gt;According to &lt;a href="http://www.alexa.com/data/details/traffic_details?&amp;amp;range=2y&amp;amp;size=large&amp;amp;compare_sites=&amp;amp;y=r&amp;amp;url=www.englishforums.com" target="_blank" title="http://www.alexa.com/data/details/traffic_details?&amp;amp;range=2y&amp;amp;size=large&amp;amp;compare_sites=&amp;amp;y=r&amp;amp;url=www.englishforums.com"&gt;&lt;FONT color=#246398&gt;Alexa&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/a&gt;, weâre now the worldâs busiest EFL forum*,* with up to 30,000 visits each day - 'Kudos' to our amazing team! &lt;BR&gt;Due to massive demand*,* &lt;a href="http://www.thechatpage.com/" target="_blank" title="http://www.thechatpage.com/"&gt;&lt;FONT color=#246398&gt;LIVE chat&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/a&gt; is here. Please read the &lt;a href="/English/GeneralGuidelinesTermsConditions/khz/Post.htm" target="_blank" title="/English/GeneralGuidelinesTermsConditions/khz/Post.htm"&gt;&lt;FONT color=#246398&gt;guidelines, terms and conditions&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/a&gt; before posting. &lt;B&gt;PLEASE DO NOT POST PERSONAL CONTACT ADDRESSES&lt;/B&gt;. &lt;a href="/user/CreateUser.aspx?ReturnUrl=/Default.aspx" target="_blank" title="/user/CreateUser.aspx?ReturnUrl=/Default.aspx"&gt;&lt;FONT color=#246398&gt;Register here&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/a&gt;; we will &lt;STRONG&gt;never send you spam&lt;/STRONG&gt;!&lt;BR&gt;&lt;/P&gt;
&lt;UL&gt;
&lt;LI&gt;Finally, there is a little phrase at the top right-hand corner when one is logged in.&amp;nbsp; It says, "Welcome back XYZ" (where XYZ is the username).&amp;nbsp; Because someone is being addressed in this phrase, there should be a comma after "back."&lt;/LI&gt;&lt;/UL&gt;
&lt;P&gt;Thank you for your attention, and keep up the great work!&lt;/P&gt;
&lt;P&gt;Warm regards,&lt;/P&gt;
&lt;P&gt;Andy&lt;/P&gt;</description></item><item><title>Re: This sentence is a real challenge</title><link>http://www.englishforums.com/English/SentenceRealChallenge/dmrmc/post.htm#309725</link><pubDate>Tue, 02 Jan 2007 17:45:43 GMT</pubDate><guid isPermaLink="true">946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:309725</guid><dc:creator>Marius Hancu</dc:creator><description>Log-in Control might be related to getting the logs inside the manufacturing facility for processing&lt;br&gt;
&lt;br&gt;
I don't think it's this one which works on the Web and the Internet: &lt;br&gt;
----------&lt;br&gt;
&lt;b&gt;log on&lt;/b&gt; &amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp; &lt;font size="-1"&gt;&lt;br&gt;
&lt;br&gt;
&lt;/font&gt;
Variant(s):&lt;i&gt;also&lt;/i&gt; &lt;b&gt;log in&lt;br&gt;
&lt;br&gt;
&lt;/b&gt;
Function:&lt;i&gt;intransitive verb&lt;br&gt;
&lt;br&gt;
&lt;/i&gt;
&lt;b&gt;:&lt;/b&gt; to establish communication and initiate interaction with a time-shared computer or network &lt;br&gt;
- &lt;b&gt;log-on&lt;/b&gt; \&lt;font face="Times"&gt;&lt;img src="http://unabridged.merriam-webster.com/images/primarystress.gif" alt="primarystress" height="12" width="4"&gt;&lt;img src="http://unabridged.merriam-webster.com/images/doublehyphen.gif" alt="doublehyphen" height="13" width="8"&gt; |&lt;img src="http://unabridged.merriam-webster.com/images/doublehyphen.gif" alt="doublehyphen" height="13" width="8"&gt; &lt;/font&gt;\  &lt;i&gt;also&lt;/i&gt; &lt;b&gt;log-in&lt;/b&gt; \&lt;font face="Times"&gt;&lt;img src="http://unabridged.merriam-webster.com/images/primarystress.gif" alt="primarystress" height="12" width="4"&gt;&lt;img src="http://unabridged.merriam-webster.com/images/doublehyphen.gif" alt="doublehyphen" height="13" width="8"&gt; |&lt;img src="http://unabridged.merriam-webster.com/images/doublehyphen.gif" alt="doublehyphen" height="13" width="8"&gt; &lt;/font&gt;\ &lt;i&gt;noun&lt;/i&gt;


&lt;br&gt;
&lt;br&gt;


&lt;font face="Arial" size="-1"&gt; http://unabridged.merriam-webster.com&lt;br&gt;
---------------&lt;br&gt;
&lt;/font&gt;</description></item><item><title>Re: TOEIC question</title><link>http://www.englishforums.com/English/ToeicQuestion/2/dvrcg/Post.htm#270255</link><pubDate>Thu, 21 Sep 2006 07:28:51 GMT</pubDate><guid isPermaLink="true">946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:270255</guid><dc:creator>Inchoateknowledge</dc:creator><description>&lt;BLOCKQUOTE&gt;&lt;table width="85%"&gt;&lt;tr&gt;&lt;td class="txt4"&gt;&lt;img src="/Themes/default/images/icon-quote.gif"&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;strong&gt;CalifJim wrote:&lt;/strong&gt;&lt;/td&gt;&lt;/tr&gt;&lt;tr&gt;&lt;td class="quoteTable"&gt;&lt;table width="100%"&gt;&lt;tr&gt;&lt;td width="100%" valign="top" class="txt4"&gt;&lt;table width="85%"&gt;&lt;tr&gt;&lt;td class="quoteTable"&gt;&lt;table width="100%"&gt;&lt;tr&gt;&lt;td width="100%" valign="top" class="txt4"&gt;&lt;FONT face=Arial color=#006400&gt;&lt;B&gt;We have &lt;FONT color=#000000&gt;at some time&lt;/FONT&gt; to do something.&lt;/B&gt;&lt;/FONT&gt; 
&lt;P&gt;&lt;FONT face=Arial color=#006400&gt;&lt;B&gt;This is what I call split infinitive.&lt;/B&gt;&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/td&gt;&lt;/tr&gt;&lt;/table&gt;&lt;/td&gt;&lt;/tr&gt;&lt;/table&gt;&lt;/BLOCKQUOTE&gt;&lt;BR&gt;Well, unfortunately, it's not what everyone else calls a split infinitive!&amp;nbsp; &lt;img src="/emoticons/emotion-1.gif" alt="Smile [:)]" /&gt;&lt;BR&gt;&lt;/P&gt;
&lt;P&gt;&lt;EM&gt;We have &lt;B&gt;to&lt;/B&gt; at some time &lt;B&gt;do&lt;/B&gt; something&lt;/EM&gt; would create a split infinitive.&lt;BR&gt;None of this discussion has anything to do with split infinitives.&amp;nbsp; (Sorry to disappoint you!)&lt;BR&gt;&lt;/P&gt;
&lt;P&gt;The sentence doesn't work because &lt;EM&gt;before the end of the month&lt;/EM&gt; is not an amount of time.&amp;nbsp; Strictly speaking, &lt;EM&gt;until the end of the month&lt;/EM&gt; isn't an amount of time either, but it implies an amount of time indirectly, the way that before cannot. (It implies &lt;EM&gt;the amount of time encompassed by 'from now until the end of the month'&lt;/EM&gt;)&lt;BR&gt;&lt;/P&gt;
&lt;P&gt;Compare with the analog in space.&lt;BR&gt;&lt;/P&gt;&lt;EM&gt;We &lt;U&gt;have&lt;/U&gt; &lt;U&gt;plenty of room&lt;/U&gt; in the kitchen &lt;U&gt;to&lt;/U&gt; set up our science experiment. &lt;/EM&gt;&lt;BR&gt;Fine.&amp;nbsp; &lt;EM&gt;plenty of room in the kitchen&lt;/EM&gt; describes an amount of space.&lt;BR&gt;&lt;BR&gt;*&lt;EM&gt;We &lt;U&gt;have&lt;/U&gt; &lt;U&gt;in front of the TV&lt;/U&gt; &lt;U&gt;to&lt;/U&gt; set up our experiment.&lt;/EM&gt;&lt;BR&gt;Wrong.&amp;nbsp; &lt;EM&gt;in front of the TV&lt;/EM&gt; is a position in space, not an amount of space.&lt;BR&gt;
&lt;P&gt;(In none of these, whether the time examples or the space examples, should you think of the &lt;EM&gt;have&lt;/EM&gt; as the&lt;EM&gt; have to&lt;/EM&gt; of obligation.&amp;nbsp; It is the &lt;EM&gt;have&lt;/EM&gt; of possession.)&lt;BR&gt;&lt;/P&gt;
&lt;P&gt;CJ&lt;BR&gt;&lt;/P&gt;
&lt;P&gt;&lt;/td&gt;&lt;/tr&gt;&lt;/table&gt;&lt;/td&gt;&lt;/tr&gt;&lt;/table&gt;&lt;/BLOCKQUOTE&gt;&lt;/P&gt;
&lt;P&gt;Yes, indeed, it is not a split inf.&lt;/P&gt;
&lt;P&gt;But the sentence is correct, IMO&lt;/P&gt;

&lt;P&gt;&lt;B&gt;&lt;FONT face=Arial&gt;&lt;FONT color=#006400&gt;We have&amp;nbsp;&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;FONT color=#006400&gt; to do something = correct&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/B&gt;&lt;/P&gt;
&lt;P&gt;&lt;B&gt;&lt;FONT face=Arial color=#006400&gt;We have an adverb phrase we want to integrate into the above sentence:&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/B&gt;&lt;/P&gt;
&lt;P&gt;&lt;FONT face=Arial color=#006400&gt;&lt;B&gt;before the end of the month = when&lt;/B&gt;&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/P&gt;
&lt;P&gt;Before means&amp;nbsp;&lt;FONT color=#ff1493&gt;at&lt;/FONT&gt; or during&amp;nbsp;&lt;FONT color=#ff1493&gt;a time&lt;/FONT&gt; earlier than (the the end of this month)&lt;/P&gt;
&lt;P&gt;&lt;a href="http://dictionary.cambridge.org/define.asp?key=6722&amp;amp;dict=CALD" target="_blank" title="http://dictionary.cambridge.org/define.asp?key=6722&amp;amp;dict=CALD"&gt;http://dictionary.cambridge.org/define.asp?key=6722&amp;amp;dict=CALD&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/P&gt;
&lt;P&gt;&lt;B&gt;&lt;FONT face=Arial color=#006400&gt;So, our problem now has been narrowed down to whether we can insert the phrase in the sentence, in&amp;nbsp;the above place.&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/B&gt;&lt;/P&gt;
&lt;P&gt;&lt;B&gt;&lt;FONT face=Arial color=#006400&gt;We have&amp;nbsp; to raise the necessary capital (before the end of the month) = &lt;FONT color=#000000&gt;at&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;FONT color=#000000&gt;&amp;nbsp;a time&lt;/FONT&gt; before the end of the month = correct sentence&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/B&gt;&lt;/P&gt;
&lt;P&gt;&lt;B&gt;&lt;FONT face=Arial color=#006400&gt;We have&amp;nbsp;(before the end of the month) to raise the necessary capital = by the same token, I think it is correct.&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/B&gt;&lt;/P&gt;
&lt;P&gt;&lt;a href="http://dictionary.cambridge.org/define.asp?key=6722&amp;amp;dict=CALD" target="_blank" title="http://dictionary.cambridge.org/define.asp?key=6722&amp;amp;dict=CALD"&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/P&gt;</description></item><item><title>Re: Poem for Aaron</title><link>http://www.englishforums.com/English/PoemForAaron/dbrlp/post.htm#255678</link><pubDate>Mon, 14 Aug 2006 08:55:49 GMT</pubDate><guid isPermaLink="true">946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:255678</guid><dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator><description>&lt;br&gt;You can start by reading &lt;a href="http://www.bartleby.com/68/42/6042.html" target="_blank" title="http://www.bartleby.com/68/42/6042.html"&gt;THIS&lt;/a&gt; and &lt;a href="http://www.kencollins.com/why-05.htm" target="_blank" title="http://www.kencollins.com/why-05.htm"&gt;THIS&lt;/a&gt; and &lt;a href="http://alt-usage-english.org/pronoun_paradigms.html" target="_blank" title="http://alt-usage-english.org/pronoun_paradigms.html"&gt;THIS&lt;/a&gt;.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Here also are a few quotes from online poetry or literary reviews:&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;&lt;p&gt;
&lt;font face="Arial"&gt;&lt;font size="4"&gt;&lt;font color="#000000"&gt;&lt;font color="blue"&gt;&lt;font size="2"&gt;&lt;font size="2"&gt;&lt;font color="#000000"&gt;&lt;font color="navy"&gt;&lt;font color="black"&gt;&lt;font size="2"&gt;&lt;font color="blue"&gt;&lt;font color="black"&gt;&lt;font color="blue"&gt;&lt;font color="black"&gt;&lt;font color="navy"&gt;&lt;font color="black"&gt;&lt;font color="navy"&gt;&lt;font color="black"&gt;&lt;font size="2"&gt;&lt;font color="black"&gt;&lt;font color="black"&gt;&lt;font color="navy"&gt;&lt;font color="black"&gt;&lt;font color="navy"&gt;&lt;font color="black"&gt;&lt;font color="black"&gt;&lt;font size="2"&gt;&lt;font color="black"&gt;&lt;font color="navy"&gt;&lt;font color="black"&gt;&lt;font color="navy"&gt;&lt;font color="black"&gt;&lt;font color="blue"&gt;&lt;font color="black"&gt;&lt;font color="green"&gt;&lt;font color="black"&gt;&lt;font size="2"&gt;&lt;font color="black"&gt;"The
sole reservation I find myself harbouring with Alan Seeger's sonnets
(especially the first series) is this: Seeger, who is after all a
Twentieth Century poet, too often resorts to reliance on anachronistic
language, and especially on the archaic pronouns, "thee" and "thou" to
embellish his work, with the result that it sometimes sounds a little
affected and quaint.&amp;nbsp; Allow me a few examples:&lt;/font&gt;&lt;/font&gt;&lt;/font&gt;&lt;/font&gt;&lt;/font&gt;&lt;/font&gt;&lt;/font&gt;&lt;/font&gt;&lt;/font&gt;&lt;/font&gt;&lt;/font&gt;&lt;/font&gt;&lt;/font&gt;&lt;/font&gt;&lt;/font&gt;&lt;/font&gt;&lt;/font&gt;&lt;/font&gt;&lt;/font&gt;&lt;/font&gt;&lt;/font&gt;&lt;/font&gt;&lt;/font&gt;&lt;/font&gt;&lt;/font&gt;&lt;/font&gt;&lt;/font&gt;&lt;/font&gt;&lt;/font&gt;&lt;/font&gt;&lt;/font&gt;&lt;/font&gt;&lt;/font&gt;&lt;/font&gt;&lt;/font&gt;&lt;/font&gt;&lt;/font&gt;&lt;/font&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;font face="Arial"&gt;&lt;font size="4"&gt;&lt;font color="#000000"&gt;&lt;font color="blue"&gt;&lt;font size="2"&gt;&lt;font size="2"&gt;&lt;font color="#000000"&gt;&lt;font color="navy"&gt;&lt;font color="black"&gt;&lt;font size="2"&gt;&lt;font color="blue"&gt;&lt;font color="black"&gt;&lt;font color="blue"&gt;&lt;font color="black"&gt;&lt;font color="navy"&gt;&lt;font color="black"&gt;&lt;font color="navy"&gt;&lt;font color="black"&gt;&lt;font size="2"&gt;&lt;font color="black"&gt;&lt;font color="black"&gt;&lt;font color="navy"&gt;&lt;font color="black"&gt;&lt;font color="navy"&gt;&lt;font color="black"&gt;&lt;font color="black"&gt;&lt;font size="2"&gt;&lt;font color="black"&gt;&lt;font color="navy"&gt;&lt;font color="black"&gt;&lt;font color="navy"&gt;&lt;font color="black"&gt;&lt;font color="blue"&gt;&lt;font color="black"&gt;&lt;font color="green"&gt;&lt;font color="black"&gt;&lt;font size="2"&gt;&lt;font color="black"&gt; 
&lt;/font&gt;&lt;/font&gt;&lt;/font&gt;&lt;/font&gt;&lt;/font&gt;&lt;/font&gt;&lt;/font&gt;&lt;/font&gt;&lt;/font&gt;&lt;/font&gt;&lt;/font&gt;&lt;/font&gt;&lt;/font&gt;&lt;/font&gt;&lt;/font&gt;&lt;/font&gt;&lt;/font&gt;&lt;/font&gt;&lt;/font&gt;&lt;/font&gt;&lt;/font&gt;&lt;/font&gt;&lt;/font&gt;&lt;/font&gt;&lt;/font&gt;&lt;/font&gt;&lt;/font&gt;&lt;/font&gt;&lt;/font&gt;&lt;/font&gt;&lt;/font&gt;&lt;/font&gt;&lt;/font&gt;&lt;/font&gt;&lt;/font&gt;&lt;/font&gt;&lt;/font&gt;&lt;/font&gt;&lt;ul&gt;&lt;ul&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;font face="Arial"&gt;&lt;font size="4"&gt;&lt;font color="#000000"&gt;&lt;font color="blue"&gt;&lt;font size="2"&gt;&lt;font size="2"&gt;&lt;font color="#000000"&gt;&lt;font color="navy"&gt;&lt;font color="black"&gt;&lt;font size="2"&gt;&lt;font color="blue"&gt;&lt;font color="black"&gt;&lt;font color="blue"&gt;&lt;font color="black"&gt;&lt;font color="navy"&gt;&lt;font color="black"&gt;&lt;font color="navy"&gt;&lt;font color="black"&gt;&lt;font size="2"&gt;&lt;font color="black"&gt;&lt;font color="black"&gt;&lt;font color="navy"&gt;&lt;font color="black"&gt;&lt;font color="navy"&gt;&lt;font color="black"&gt;&lt;font color="black"&gt;&lt;font size="2"&gt;&lt;font color="black"&gt;&lt;font color="navy"&gt;&lt;font color="black"&gt;&lt;font color="navy"&gt;&lt;font color="black"&gt;&lt;font color="blue"&gt;&lt;font color="black"&gt;&lt;font color="green"&gt;&lt;font color="black"&gt;&lt;font size="2"&gt;&lt;font color="black"&gt;&lt;font color="navy"&gt;"Like as a dryad,...", and "Come thou no less...."  (Sonnet XII),&lt;br&gt; 
"That oft as Fortune from ten thousand shows..." (Sonnet XIV),&lt;br&gt;
"Come unto me, Love beckoned them, for lo!"  (Sonnet XV)&lt;br&gt; 
"Have made my asking less importunate," (Other Sonnets, Sonnet IV)&lt;br&gt; 
&lt;font color="black"&gt;and finally,&lt;br&gt;&lt;font color="navy"&gt;
"'... 'tis not so easy near." (Other Sonnets, Sonnet IX) &lt;/font&gt;&lt;/font&gt;&lt;/font&gt;&lt;/font&gt;&lt;/font&gt;&lt;/font&gt;&lt;/font&gt;&lt;/font&gt;&lt;/font&gt;&lt;/font&gt;&lt;/font&gt;&lt;/font&gt;&lt;/font&gt;&lt;/font&gt;&lt;/font&gt;&lt;/font&gt;&lt;/font&gt;&lt;/font&gt;&lt;/font&gt;&lt;/font&gt;&lt;/font&gt;&lt;/font&gt;&lt;/font&gt;&lt;/font&gt;&lt;/font&gt;&lt;/font&gt;&lt;/font&gt;&lt;/font&gt;&lt;/font&gt;&lt;/font&gt;&lt;/font&gt;&lt;/font&gt;&lt;/font&gt;&lt;/font&gt;&lt;/font&gt;&lt;/font&gt;&lt;/font&gt;&lt;/font&gt;&lt;/font&gt;&lt;/font&gt;&lt;/font&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/ul&gt;&lt;/ul&gt;&lt;font face="Arial"&gt;&lt;font size="4"&gt;&lt;font color="#000000"&gt;&lt;font color="blue"&gt;&lt;font size="2"&gt;&lt;font size="2"&gt;&lt;font color="#000000"&gt;&lt;font color="navy"&gt;&lt;font color="black"&gt;&lt;font size="2"&gt;&lt;font color="blue"&gt;&lt;font color="black"&gt;&lt;font color="blue"&gt;&lt;font color="black"&gt;&lt;font color="navy"&gt;&lt;font color="black"&gt;&lt;font color="navy"&gt;&lt;font color="black"&gt;&lt;font size="2"&gt;&lt;font color="black"&gt;&lt;font color="black"&gt;&lt;font color="navy"&gt;&lt;font color="black"&gt;&lt;font color="navy"&gt;&lt;font color="black"&gt;&lt;font color="black"&gt;&lt;font size="2"&gt;&lt;font color="black"&gt;&lt;font color="navy"&gt;&lt;font color="black"&gt;&lt;font color="navy"&gt;&lt;font color="black"&gt;&lt;font color="blue"&gt;&lt;font color="black"&gt;&lt;font color="green"&gt;&lt;font color="black"&gt;&lt;font size="2"&gt;&lt;font color="black"&gt;&lt;font color="navy"&gt;&lt;font color="black"&gt;&lt;font color="navy"&gt;&lt;font color="black"&gt;
&lt;/font&gt;&lt;/font&gt;&lt;/font&gt;&lt;/font&gt;&lt;/font&gt;&lt;/font&gt;&lt;/font&gt;&lt;/font&gt;&lt;/font&gt;&lt;/font&gt;&lt;/font&gt;&lt;/font&gt;&lt;/font&gt;&lt;/font&gt;&lt;/font&gt;&lt;/font&gt;&lt;/font&gt;&lt;/font&gt;&lt;/font&gt;&lt;/font&gt;&lt;/font&gt;&lt;/font&gt;&lt;/font&gt;&lt;/font&gt;&lt;/font&gt;&lt;/font&gt;&lt;/font&gt;&lt;/font&gt;&lt;/font&gt;&lt;/font&gt;&lt;/font&gt;&lt;/font&gt;&lt;/font&gt;&lt;/font&gt;&lt;/font&gt;&lt;/font&gt;&lt;/font&gt;&lt;/font&gt;&lt;/font&gt;&lt;/font&gt;&lt;/font&gt;&lt;/font&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;font face="Arial"&gt;&lt;font size="4"&gt;&lt;font color="#000000"&gt;&lt;font color="blue"&gt;&lt;font size="2"&gt;&lt;font size="2"&gt;&lt;font color="#000000"&gt;&lt;font color="navy"&gt;&lt;font color="black"&gt;&lt;font size="2"&gt;&lt;font color="blue"&gt;&lt;font color="black"&gt;&lt;font color="blue"&gt;&lt;font color="black"&gt;&lt;font color="navy"&gt;&lt;font color="black"&gt;&lt;font color="navy"&gt;&lt;font color="black"&gt;&lt;font size="2"&gt;&lt;font color="black"&gt;&lt;font color="black"&gt;&lt;font color="navy"&gt;&lt;font color="black"&gt;&lt;font color="navy"&gt;&lt;font color="black"&gt;&lt;font color="black"&gt;&lt;font size="2"&gt;&lt;font color="black"&gt;&lt;font color="navy"&gt;&lt;font color="black"&gt;&lt;font color="navy"&gt;&lt;font color="black"&gt;&lt;font color="blue"&gt;&lt;font color="black"&gt;&lt;font color="green"&gt;&lt;font color="black"&gt;&lt;font size="2"&gt;&lt;font color="black"&gt;&lt;font color="navy"&gt;&lt;font color="black"&gt;&lt;font color="navy"&gt;&lt;font color="black"&gt;Such
poetic phrasing, however melodious, a modern reader might find ever so
slightly mars the otherwise pristine quality of Alan Seeger's
devotionals to his Renaissance forbears.&amp;nbsp; These anachronisms are all
the more regrettable for their being inconsistent with his mainstream
style, where he rather more scrupulously avoids using archaic
language.&amp;nbsp; Oddly, while the archaic pronominals "thee" and "thou" crop
up fairly often in his first series of sonnets, he seems to have
realized that such verbiage was, as it were, "a little off" when he
came to compose his later second series, "Other Sonnets". In these, the
archaic pronouns are gone. The second series of sonnets therefore sound
more familiar and more natural to the modern reader's ear."&lt;/font&gt;&lt;/font&gt;&lt;/font&gt;&lt;/font&gt;&lt;/font&gt;&lt;/font&gt;&lt;/font&gt;&lt;/font&gt;&lt;/font&gt;&lt;/font&gt;&lt;/font&gt;&lt;/font&gt;&lt;/font&gt;&lt;/font&gt;&lt;/font&gt;&lt;/font&gt;&lt;/font&gt;&lt;/font&gt;&lt;/font&gt;&lt;/font&gt;&lt;/font&gt;&lt;/font&gt;&lt;/font&gt;&lt;/font&gt;&lt;/font&gt;&lt;/font&gt;&lt;/font&gt;&lt;/font&gt;&lt;/font&gt;&lt;/font&gt;&lt;/font&gt;&lt;/font&gt;&lt;/font&gt;&lt;/font&gt;&lt;/font&gt;&lt;/font&gt;&lt;/font&gt;&lt;/font&gt;&lt;/font&gt;&lt;/font&gt;&lt;/font&gt;&lt;/font&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;br&gt;&lt;/p&gt;"[Allan Ginsberg] studied poetry under William Carlos Williams. who was then in the middle of writing his epic poem &lt;u&gt;Paterson&lt;/u&gt;&lt;a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paterson_%28poem%29" target="_blank" title="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paterson_%28poem%29"&gt;&lt;/a&gt;
about his home town. Ginsberg, after attending a reading by Williams,
sent the older poet several of his poems and wrote an introductory
letter. Most of these early poems were rhymed and metered and included
archaic pronouns like "Thee." Williams hated the poems. He told
Ginsberg later, "In this mode perfection is basic, and these poems are
not perfect."&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;"Other critics have commented on Hemingway's use of the archaic pronouns
"thee" and "thou" and "thy" in For Whom the Bell Tolls. Carlos Baker
describes this as "intentionally heightened language", intended
to reproduce the tone of an Elizabethan epic. For Azevedo, the pronouns
suggest "an old-fashioned poetic usage or the archaic diction of the
King James Bible."&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;"
    My greatest single disappointment with Morgan's work is his affinity for 
    Elizabethan English. I find the archaic pronouns, verb forms, and sentence 
    constructions both annoying and distracting. It isn't as though he tries to 
    hide this affinity though. He says plainly in the introduction that he is 
    "thoroughly steeped in the grandeur" of the seventeenth century. His 
    reliance on the King James Version of the Bible is obvious: I would have 
    wished for more accessible language to complement his insistence on familiar 
    music."&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Googling the archaic pronouns individually or collectively, however, produces mostly heated discussions on the use of them in the King James version of the Bible.&amp;nbsp; There and in Shakespeare are the only places that &lt;i&gt;thee, thou, thy&lt;/i&gt; and &lt;i&gt;thine&lt;/i&gt; reside comfortably and timelessly.&amp;nbsp; Just as we no longer go about writing--&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;&lt;i&gt;&lt;/i&gt;&lt;i&gt;  O lord, oure lord, thy name how merveillous &lt;br&gt;Is in this large world ysprad, quod she; &lt;br&gt;For noght oonly thy laude precious &lt;br&gt;Parfourned is by men of dignitee, &lt;br&gt;But by the mouth of children thy bountee &lt;br&gt;Parfourned is, for on the brest soukynge &lt;br&gt;Somtyme shewen they thyn heriynge&lt;/i&gt;. &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;-- we no longer go about using the archaic pronouns for any but the most specific of artistic purposes-- and that does not include love lyrics.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;&lt;i&gt;(Edit: After compiling all of the above, I forgot to log in!-- MM)&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;&lt;/i&gt;&lt;br&gt;</description></item><item><title>Re: Please rate &amp;amp; comment on my recommendation letter.</title><link>http://www.englishforums.com/English/RateRecommendationLetter/cvknj/post.htm#189814</link><pubDate>Sat, 28 Jan 2006 04:38:56 GMT</pubDate><guid isPermaLink="true">946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:189814</guid><dc:creator>Kngpen</dc:creator><description>&lt;P&gt;I am in a professional writing class this semester and have already received some valuable tips which I shed to you. Do not use to "whom it may concern." Do some research and find something more specific. Do not use passive verbs (am, was, is, are, have, be,). Do not use no, not, or anything negative (neither, nor, etc.).&amp;nbsp; Where you state, "I have no doubt that he will succeed in all his endeavors." Possibly rephrase this to get rid of the negative "no" to something like, "His determination and hard work warrant his success and profitability in all future endeavors." &lt;/P&gt;

&lt;P&gt;I posted this anonymously (I forgot to log in). Should be showing up below, however, you have it now instead &lt;img src="/emoticons/emotion-5.gif" alt="Wink [;)]" /&gt;.&lt;/P&gt;</description></item><item><title>Re: IN FRONT OF/IN BEFORE OF</title><link>http://www.englishforums.com/English/InFrontOfInBeforeOf/2/crjxq/Post.htm#169897</link><pubDate>Wed, 14 Dec 2005 19:08:18 GMT</pubDate><guid isPermaLink="true">946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:169897</guid><dc:creator>rishonly</dc:creator><description>&lt;P&gt;That's it!. I guess your answer unties the knot, Pieanne. Now, I understand the right usage is &amp;lt;&amp;lt;verb + before &amp;gt;&amp;gt;, in the given context. &lt;/P&gt;
&lt;P&gt;Please &lt;STRONG&gt;sign in/check in/log in/&lt;/STRONG&gt;&amp;nbsp;before 8.00am. Thanks again Pieanne and CalifJim.&lt;/P&gt;
&lt;P&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/P&gt;</description></item><item><title>Re: Collective nouns</title><link>http://www.englishforums.com/English/CollectiveNouns/bncwj/post.htm#148113</link><pubDate>Sat, 15 Oct 2005 15:30:56 GMT</pubDate><guid isPermaLink="true">946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:148113</guid><dc:creator>Jussive</dc:creator><description>&lt;P&gt;&lt;BLOCKQUOTE&gt;&lt;table width="85%"&gt;&lt;tr&gt;&lt;td class="txt4"&gt;&lt;img src="/Themes/default/images/icon-quote.gif"&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;strong&gt;Anonymous wrote:&lt;/strong&gt;&lt;/td&gt;&lt;/tr&gt;&lt;tr&gt;&lt;td class="quoteTable"&gt;&lt;table width="100%"&gt;&lt;tr&gt;&lt;td width="100%" valign="top" class="txt4"&gt;&lt;EM&gt;&lt;BR&gt;(Oops! Didn't take time to log in-- MM)&lt;/EM&gt;&lt;BR&gt;&lt;BR&gt;&lt;BR&gt;Well, I am now deep in the bowels of &lt;EM&gt;Quirk, et al&lt;/EM&gt;, Jussive-- and&amp;nbsp; I think there may be some--ahem!-- lack of clarity among everyone, including the texts, between &lt;B&gt;group&lt;/B&gt; nouns and &lt;B&gt;collective&lt;/B&gt; nouns, among other things.&amp;nbsp; Group nouns (according to the book in my lap at the moment) are those you mention as taking &lt;EM&gt;an item of&lt;/EM&gt;: &lt;EM&gt;a &lt;B&gt;herd&lt;/B&gt; of cattle, a &lt;B&gt;gaggle&lt;/B&gt; of geese&lt;/EM&gt;, etc-- where &lt;U&gt;&lt;EM&gt;herd&lt;/EM&gt;&lt;/U&gt; (not &lt;EM&gt;cattle&lt;/EM&gt;) is the group noun.&amp;nbsp; Here, they list&lt;EM&gt; family&lt;/EM&gt; and &lt;EM&gt;committee&lt;/EM&gt;, for instance, among the group nouns referring to people, with the comment that there is often a choice whether to use a singular or plural verb, based on notional concord-- i.e. what the speaker is thinking.&lt;BR&gt;&lt;BR&gt;Meanwhile, in another section (5.78, to be precise), they are comparing &lt;B&gt;unmarked plural&lt;/B&gt; nouns-- &lt;EM&gt;people&lt;/EM&gt; (sing. &lt;EM&gt;person&lt;/EM&gt;), &lt;EM&gt;police&lt;/EM&gt; (sing. &lt;EM&gt;policeman/officer&lt;/EM&gt;), &lt;EM&gt;cattle&lt;/EM&gt; (sing. &lt;EM&gt;cow&lt;/EM&gt;?) with &lt;B&gt;collective&lt;/B&gt; nouns, which '&lt;EM&gt;differ from other nouns in taking as pronoun referents either singular &lt;B&gt;it&lt;/B&gt; or plural&lt;/EM&gt;&lt;EM&gt; &lt;B&gt;they&lt;/B&gt; without change of number in the noun&lt;/EM&gt;'.&amp;nbsp; In other words, they are not uncountable, but the singular form can be in concord with a singular and/or a plural verb, while the plural form acts normally:&lt;BR&gt;&lt;BR&gt;&lt;EM&gt;The &lt;B&gt;committee has&lt;/B&gt; met and&lt;B&gt; it has&lt;/B&gt; rejected the proposal.&lt;BR&gt;The &lt;B&gt;committee have&lt;/B&gt; met and &lt;B&gt;they have &lt;/B&gt;rejected the proposal.&lt;BR&gt;The &lt;B&gt;committees have&lt;/B&gt; met and &lt;B&gt;they have&lt;/B&gt; rejected the proposal&lt;/EM&gt;.&lt;BR&gt;&lt;BR&gt;Incidentally, to hark back to the original question, &lt;EM&gt;Quirk&lt;/EM&gt; lists examples of 'collective proper names':&amp;nbsp; &lt;EM&gt;Parliament, the Vatican, the United States&lt;/EM&gt;.&lt;BR&gt;&lt;BR&gt;That's as far as I am prepared to carry the research tonight-- over to you!&lt;BR&gt;&lt;BR&gt;MM&lt;BR&gt;&lt;BR&gt;&lt;BR&gt;&lt;BR&gt;&lt;/td&gt;&lt;/tr&gt;&lt;/table&gt;&lt;/td&gt;&lt;/tr&gt;&lt;/table&gt;&lt;/BLOCKQUOTE&gt;&lt;/P&gt;&lt;FONT size=5&gt;
&lt;P&gt;&lt;FONT size=2&gt;Ok, maybe we can get somewhere near the bottom of this.&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/P&gt;
&lt;P&gt;&lt;FONT size=2&gt;Lets get something straight first: unmarked plural = irregular plural â right?&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/P&gt;
&lt;P&gt;&lt;FONT size=2&gt;We are in agreement that âchildâ has an irregular plural in âchildrenâ. Incidentally, I canât see how the singular of âcattleâ can be âcowâ as it refers to any ruminant animal. Is it that âcowâ shares a plural with âbuffaloâ? Maybe one word can be the plural for several nouns. Hmm&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/P&gt;
&lt;P&gt;&lt;FONT size=2&gt;Anyway, I still cannot see how âpoliceâ can be an unmarked plural. I have now checked my Oxford English Grammar book and it classes police as a noun that is always in the plural, like 'arms' (weapons) or 'earnings'. These are nouns that donât have singular forms. I guess the police (collectively) is more than just the plural of âpolicemanâ. Besides, wouldnât that be âpolicemenâ? As far as Iâm aware, this is why âpoliceâ is listed under one type of collective noun, even though such words donât apply to the âcollective nounâ test you proposed, i.e. whether the noun can be represented by a plural or singular pronoun. I think such a test would distinguish a group noun, perhaps.&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/P&gt;
&lt;P&gt;&lt;FONT size=2&gt;&lt;/FONT&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/P&gt;
&lt;P&gt;&lt;FONT size=2&gt;Words such as âluggageâ or âclothingâ donât pass such a test either:&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/P&gt;
&lt;P&gt;&lt;FONT size=2&gt;âThe luggage is here. It has arrived.â&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/P&gt;
&lt;P&gt;&lt;FONT size=2&gt;âThe luggage is here. They have arrived.â (Obviously, this is wrong.)&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/P&gt;
&lt;P&gt;&lt;FONT size=2&gt;Such words are always singular, yet, identify a collection of things, and, therefore, they are yet another type of collective noun. &lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/P&gt;
&lt;P&gt;&lt;FONT size=2&gt;So we have three types. The three have different properties as I have shown. None of them are simply the plural of singular nouns and they all represent a collection of things or people and thus are 'collective nouns'.&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/P&gt;
&lt;P&gt;&lt;FONT size=2&gt;Ok over to you, my friend.&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/P&gt;
&lt;P&gt;&lt;EM&gt;&lt;FONT size=2&gt;&amp;lt;edited text size&amp;gt;&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/EM&gt;&lt;/P&gt;&lt;/FONT&gt;</description></item><item><title>Re: Collective nouns</title><link>http://www.englishforums.com/English/CollectiveNouns/bncgp/post.htm#148085</link><pubDate>Sat, 15 Oct 2005 12:53:47 GMT</pubDate><guid isPermaLink="true">946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:148085</guid><dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator><description>&lt;i&gt;&lt;br&gt;
(Oops! Didn't take time to log in-- MM)&lt;/i&gt;&lt;br&gt;
&lt;br&gt;
&lt;br&gt;
Well, I am now deep in the bowels of &lt;i&gt;Quirk, et al&lt;/i&gt;, Jussive-- and&amp;nbsp; I think there may be some--ahem!-- lack of clarity among everyone, including the texts, between &lt;b&gt;group&lt;/b&gt; nouns and &lt;b&gt;collective&lt;/b&gt; nouns, among other things.&amp;nbsp; Group nouns (according to the book in my lap at the moment) are those you mention as taking &lt;i&gt;an item of&lt;/i&gt;: &lt;i&gt;a &lt;b&gt;herd&lt;/b&gt; of cattle, a &lt;b&gt;gaggle&lt;/b&gt; of geese&lt;/i&gt;, etc-- where &lt;u&gt;&lt;i&gt;herd&lt;/i&gt;&lt;/u&gt; (not &lt;i&gt;cattle&lt;/i&gt;) is the group noun.&amp;nbsp; Here, they list&lt;i&gt; family&lt;/i&gt; and &lt;i&gt;committee&lt;/i&gt;,
for instance, among the group nouns referring to people, with the
comment that there is often a choice whether to use a singular or
plural verb, based on notional concord-- i.e. what the speaker is
thinking.&lt;br&gt;
&lt;br&gt;
Meanwhile, in another section (5.78, to be precise), they are comparing &lt;b&gt;unmarked plural&lt;/b&gt; nouns-- &lt;i&gt;people&lt;/i&gt; (sing. &lt;i&gt;person&lt;/i&gt;), &lt;i&gt;police&lt;/i&gt; (sing. &lt;i&gt;policeman/officer&lt;/i&gt;), &lt;i&gt;cattle&lt;/i&gt; (sing. &lt;i&gt;cow&lt;/i&gt;?) with &lt;b&gt;collective&lt;/b&gt; nouns, which '&lt;i&gt;differ from other nouns in taking as pronoun referents either singular &lt;b&gt;it&lt;/b&gt; or plural&lt;/i&gt;&lt;i&gt; &lt;b&gt;they&lt;/b&gt; without change of number in the noun&lt;/i&gt;'.&amp;nbsp;
In other words, they are not uncountable, but the singular form can be
in concord with a singular and/or a plural verb, while the plural form
acts normally:&lt;br&gt;
&lt;br&gt;
&lt;i&gt;The &lt;b&gt;committee has&lt;/b&gt; met and&lt;b&gt; it has&lt;/b&gt; rejected the proposal.&lt;br&gt;
The &lt;b&gt;committee have&lt;/b&gt; met and &lt;b&gt;they have &lt;/b&gt;rejected the proposal.&lt;br&gt;
The &lt;b&gt;committees have&lt;/b&gt; met and &lt;b&gt;they have&lt;/b&gt; rejected the proposal&lt;/i&gt;.&lt;br&gt;
&lt;br&gt;
Incidentally, to hark back to the original question, &lt;i&gt;Quirk&lt;/i&gt; lists examples of 'collective proper names':&amp;nbsp; &lt;i&gt;Parliament, the Vatican, the United States&lt;/i&gt;.&lt;br&gt;
&lt;br&gt;
That's as far as I am prepared to carry the research tonight-- over to you!&lt;br&gt;
&lt;br&gt;
MM&lt;br&gt;
&lt;br&gt;
&lt;br&gt;
&lt;br&gt;</description></item></channel></rss>