Search results for 'tag:Verbs tag:Plural subject' matching tags 'Verbs' and 'Plural subject'

Re: Plural Subject, Pluarl Verb, Singular Object

Ditch — Wed, 05 Nov 2008 23:54:02 GMT

All righty.

Thank you both.

If anyone has any further thoughts on this, please post them. Evidently, people have different ideas about what is acceptable.

Re: Plural Subject, Pluarl Verb, Singular Object

AlpheccaStars — Fri, 31 Oct 2008 19:15:16 GMT

Ditch
And, by the same logic, you can say, "Giraffes have a long neck," right?

It sounds fine to my ears. It means each member of that type of animal has a long neck. The qualifier "all" is understood. All giraffes have a long neck.

But not this - The giraffes have a long neck.

Re: Plural Subject, Pluarl Verb, Singular Object

Kooyeen — Fri, 31 Oct 2008 18:43:25 GMT

Ditch
And, by the same logic, you can say, "Giraffes have a long neck," right?

I would NOT say it. If you google it, the plural version returns more than 50 pages I can browse through, while I can only access two pages with the singular version... and this thread and a thread on antimoon are among the first results, and that's a BAD sign.

Re: Plural Subject, Pluarl Verb, Singular Object

Ditch — Thu, 30 Oct 2008 06:51:09 GMT

Thank you, A-Stars!

"Usually, the cats have a collar." >> This still means that the cats are sharing one collar. But, if you write: Usually, cats have a collar. - the meaning is changed. By deleting the article "the", "cats" refers to a collective group, and "usually" refers to a typical one in the group.

So you can only use this phrasing if you are talking about cats in general and not a specific group of cats?

Can you say, for example, "the cats at the pet store usually have a collar"?

"The players had an objection." >> It implies that the objection was raised by a team; the players acting as a group.

Only when it is really obvious, such as an innate characteristic:
Male lions have a mane, females do not.

And, by the same logic, you can say, "Giraffes have a long neck," right?

Re: Plural Subject, Pluarl Verb, Singular Object

AlpheccaStars — Thu, 30 Oct 2008 04:58:53 GMT

Ditch
But can anyone think of a construction with a plural subject and a singular object that implies individual ownership, but which doesn't involve any modifers?

Only when it is really obvious, such as an innate characteristic::

Male lions have a mane, females do not.

Palamino horses have a flaxen mane and tail and a contrasting golden coat.

Re: Plural Subject, Pluarl Verb, Singular Object

Ditch — Thu, 30 Oct 2008 03:39:27 GMT

Thank you both for shedding some light on this!

"The key word is 'most'."

I suspected as much. What if the sentence is modified by an adverb?

"Sometimes, the cats have a collar."
"Usually, the cats have a collar."
"Often, the cats have a collar."
"Typically, the cats have a collar."

To me, they all sound right.

What about, "A lot of cats have a collar"?

Obviously, it doesn't always come down to modifiers.

"The players had an objection."

But can anyone think of a construction with a plural subject and a singular object that implies individual ownership, but which doesn't involve any modifers?

Re: Plural Subject, Pluarl Verb, Singular Object

Kooyeen — Wed, 29 Oct 2008 23:28:13 GMT

You just asked about one of the most difficult things in English... at least for me. It took me a lot of time to understand, and I am still not sure about it.

Most families have a TV. Ok.
Giraffes have a long neck. Nope... why?
Giraffes have long necks. Ok.
All computers have a video card. Ok.

My opinion is... It seems the plural is the idiomatic choice whenever you are describing a group or things or people. If every people in a group has one thing, they will all have things.
Example: There were a group or criminals. They had a gun each. They had guns.
Example: The children raised their hands. Every one of them raised their left hand.
But whenever you are are talking more in general and there is an implicit understanding you are referring to "each" element, the singular is ok.
Example: All computers have a modem (= Every computer has one)
Example: Most people have a gun in this country. (= Almost every person has at least one gun here)

That's all I can say. It seems to make sense.

Re: Plural Subject, Pluarl Verb, Singular Object

Ditch — Wed, 29 Oct 2008 05:26:22 GMT

Hello again!

I found this exchange on another forum:

I read the following from a well-known book published in America.

"Not only do subjects need to agree with their verbs, but they need to agree with their objects as well. So it's incorrect to say the cats have a flea collar, the object must be plural as in the cats have flea collars."

But I have never heard of anything like "subject and object agreement". So could you tell me if this is right? And can't we use sentences like nowadays all computers have an embedded modem, or in case of complement, their principal crop is potatoes or the younger children are a problem?

I'd say that this is more an issue of logic than of grammar. The distinction between singular and plural is important to speakers of English, and in your first example, multiple cats would indeed have multiple collars, so it would sound illogical for you to use the singular "collar" and imply that there was only one collar.

However, if I have 2 children who attend the same school, I would say:
- My children love their school.
If each child attends a different school, I would say:
- My children love their schools.

About your other examples:
- Nowadays all computers have an embedded modem. [You should say, "All computers have embedded modems", though that doesn't make it clear whether or not each computer has only one modem. Here it is best to use the collective form:
- Nowadays every computer has an embedded modem. ]

- Their principal crop is potatoes. [This, of course is fine. It is perfectly logical. ]

- The younger children are a problem. [This is also correct, assuming that you have a single problem. If you wanted to say that each child individually was a problem, you could say, "The younger children are problems."]

As I say, it is a question of logic and what you are trying to communicate, not grammar. But you must use the proper singular or plural form to say what you intend.

Now I see there is no grammar rule like "subject and object agreement", but we should follow logic in determining the number of an object or a complement.

END

âIn your first example, multiple cats would indeed have multiple collars, so it would sound illogical for you to use the singular "collar" and imply that there was only one collar."

I donât see why âhave a flea collarâ in âThe cats have a flea collarâ should imply that "there [is] only one collar" when âown a TVâ in âMost families own a TVâ is understood to mean one TV per family.

Please help me out and choose either 1. or 2.

1. 'B' is wrong. Since "Most families own a TV" is also acceptable, "The cats have a flea collar" is also acceptable.

2. 'B' is right. "The cats have a flea collar" is illogical, but "Most families own a TV" is acceptable because...

If you choose 2., please, please, please finish the sentence.

I've rewritten this part several times now to try to make it clear where my confusion lies.

Thanks for your time.

Re: Plural Subject, Pluarl Verb, Singular Object

Ditch — Tue, 21 Oct 2008 07:24:08 GMT

So, just to clarify, there's no such thing as subject-object agreement or verb-object agreement in English, right?

Re: Plural Subject, Pluarl Verb, Singular Object

Ditch — Tue, 21 Oct 2008 03:19:27 GMT

So, the verb has to agree in number with the subject, but the object doesn't have to agree in number with the verb? Makes sense. I'd just never thought about the grammar behind sentences like the one I posted. All I remember from school is "make the verb agree with the subject."

Thanks guys.