http://www.englishforums.com/search/pro.htm?q=tag%3aVowels+tag%3aPronunciation+tag%3aChatSearch results for 'tag:Vowels tag:Pronunciation tag:Chat' matching tags 'Vowels', 'Pronunciation', and 'Chat'en-USXMOD (Build: 3614.32638)http://www.englishforums.com/English/HydrodynamicHydrodynamic/jmczx/post.htm#870792Fri, 21 Aug 2009 14:48:16 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:870792anonymousUsing “a” and “an” Before Words Raphael asks: When should I use “a” and when should I use “an” before the different words? For example, should I say “a hour” or “an hour?” I stumble over this everytime and dont’t know if I’m getting it right, as I’m not speaking and writing English natively. The Rule The rule states that “a” should be used before words that begin with consonants (e.g., b, c ,d) while “an” should be used before words that begin with vowels (e.g., a,e,i). Notice, however, that the usage is determined by the pronunciation and not by the spelling, as many people wrongly assume. You should say, therefore, “an hour” (because hour begins with a vowel sound) and “a history” (because history begins with a consonant...http://www.englishforums.com/English/PuzzleAboutPronunciationWord-The/gjgxz/post.htm#805164Fri, 03 Jul 2009 23:54:02 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:805164anonymousIt has always been my understanding, that "the" should be pronounced with a LONG E before a vowel and a SHORT E before a consonant . However, lately, I hear only the short sound used. This applies to new broadcasters and others who do public speaking. When did " THE" transition occur and where was I? D. Israel, PAhttp://www.englishforums.com/English/TheSameOrNotTheSame/hwzph/post.htm#625738Mon, 29 Dec 2008 12:07:21 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:625738avangiI'm going to pass on the "should" question. My instinct tells me it could be ambiguous, because "should" has several uses. If you use "should" in the sense of "ought to," then it would be redundant. You'd be saying it's necessary that they ought to do it. And, in fact, you'd no longer be saying that they should do it. You'd be making a major change in the meaning. I hope I'm making this clear. We're talking about two things, the obligation to be honest, and the act of being honest. If you insert "should," you're now saying that the obligation is necessary, and you're no longer saying that the act is necessary. But I have this feeling there's...http://www.englishforums.com/English/WhenIsWAVowel/6/mwbn/Post.htm#570368Thu, 25 Sep 2008 17:02:28 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:570368missmandyThis debate really seems to be about two different things, spelling and pronunciation. The letter w (and y) is often used with other vowels (and sometimes alone as well) in spelling to reperesent a vowel sound . In the words hi and by , the letter i and the letter y are representing the same sound. To add to the confusion, English has many diphthongs, or two-sound vowels. Two-sound vowels often begin or end in a sound very similar to a w sound or y sound. The easiest to here are oy (boy) and ow (cow), which can also be spelled oi (coin) and ou (house). So, it is very clear, that in spelling , w and y are like vowels. Our educators have found it much easier to just tell our kids that those letters are vowels because they are so often part...http://www.englishforums.com/English/AddressAndCity/7/lpxvg/Post.htm#996955Sun, 29 Aug 2004 15:17:07 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:996955areffI know he does, but I'm afraid to say that ... 'Avenue' in New York City dialects gets the lax vowel. Yes. I confess that it took me a long time to understand what the lax/tense split was all about, despite the fact that it had always been a feature of my speech. You can see the confusion in that posting I really didn't know what I was talking about (I mean, more than usual). And it *is* difficult to hear in PNYPS especially because the distance between the two vowels isn't as great as it might be in other New York dialects, plus you have those troublesome quantum pronunciation effects.http://www.englishforums.com/English/PlaceNamePronunciations/12/lxmhk/Post.htm#992818Tue, 17 Aug 2004 10:29:34 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:992818sean o'leathlobhairI can half understand why we don't say Paree, but why shouldn't English speaking people be able to sort out ... ard' instead of 'Mare lind' (Ok, I can't do Fontanian symbols) and the 'normal' pronunciation of the American company name? I was just doing a little lurking after a few weeks holiday in Thailand and Vietnam but I could not resist replying to this one. I guess that you know that the problem is not all one way. Most English people collapse laughing when Americans talk about "Worcestershire sauce" or ask where "Gloucester" is. Once on an American Airlines flight I attempted to order a tomato juice with Worcestershire sauce (*). I managed to translate "tomato" but...http://www.englishforums.com/English/AnUnscrewableScrew/34/lxkwz/Post.htm#991559Sat, 14 Aug 2004 09:12:16 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:991559ian nobleRubbish (meant nicely, but). Shades of my old Eng Lit ... gem, but doesn't fit the scansion. Nothing more, nothing less. Okay, now what about this issue of the pronunciation? Ross implied that the "Lancasheer" pronunciation which Lennon unquestionably uses is ... thought some BrE person here said that some BrEs actually do use a 'sheer' pronunciation for certain -shire place names. Over-analysis. The underlying vowel is a short ee. The last note is extended in the line, so the last syllable has to be held too. That pulls it from the (normally very short) "shir" into "sheer". Pronunciation has nothing to do with it. I'd welcome a suggesting as to how Lennon might have sung it otherwise,...http://www.englishforums.com/English/PlaceNamePronunciations/3/lxmhk/Post.htm#991498Sat, 14 Aug 2004 04:44:32 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:991498r j valentine}> }> I can half understand why we don't say Paree, but why shouldn't }> English speaking people be able to sort out the local pronunciations }> of proper nouns in English speaking countries? Why do all English }> people, it seems when I listen to the BBC, pronounce 'Maryland' as }> 'Mary land' and 'Hewlett Packard' as 'Hewlett PACK ard' instead of }> 'Mare lind' (Ok, I can't do Fontanian symbols) } } Say what? In New York we pronounce "Maryland" as though it were written } "Merralind" /mEr@l@nd/ "merry" vowel in the first syllable and schwa in } the second. Three syllables. "Merralind" is pretty much how people have...http://www.englishforums.com/English/PlaceNamePronunciations/3/lxmhk/Post.htm#991176Fri, 13 Aug 2004 12:54:18 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:991176areffI can half understand why we don't say Paree, but why shouldn't English speaking people be able to sort out ... as 'Mary land' and 'Hewlett Packard' as 'Hewlett PACK ard' instead of 'Mare lind' (Ok, I can't do Fontanian symbols) Say what? In New York we pronounce "Maryland" as though it were written "Merralind" /mEr@l@nd/ "merry" vowel in the first syllable and schwa in the second. Three syllables. Now, granted, most Americans have no Mary/merry distinction, and some, like Sparky and erk, go so far as to include marry in the mix. But until now I hadn't thought that some Americans pronounce "Maryland" as a *two*-syllable word, "mare-lind"....http://www.englishforums.com/English/WhyWorcesterMispronouncedWooster/25/lkzzr/Post.htm#970212Tue, 03 Aug 2004 08:12:57 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:970212jonathan jordanSurely you mean "Woosester": There was once a young lady ... part of what Gowers, inMEU 2, calls "the speak-as-you-spell movement". Ten or so years ago, in conversation with a Brit from nearCambridge, I mentioned Pontefract and she had no ... than /'pan ti fr@kt/, while I had remembered what I'd read about the name years before and said /'pVm frEt/. I'm from rather closer than Cambridge to Pontefract, and I'd say /'pA.ntIfrakt/ - that's "PONT-i-fract" for IPA-phobes - with a full vowel and not a schwa in the third syllable. (I presume your /a/ is meant to be a "cot" vowel, but we're talking Yorkshire here - /a/ is in "cat".) I don't know what real...http://www.englishforums.com/English/IreWords/2/lwzpv/Post.htm#960438Fri, 16 Jul 2004 22:34:48 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:960438mike lyleI have come to the sudden realization that I don't ... and I can't say (wVjr). -Aaron J. Dinkin Dr. Whom I pronounce them all in the same way. But I have heard others pronounce them differently, as you say. Fi-uhr, with a schwa. But no one says di-uhr. I've done some 'trials', and though it's hard to be objective about one's own pronunciations I think I agree that all have the same sound in my kind of non-rhotic RP. But I disagree that nobody says 'di-uh' (daj@) (I hope this works: I've put my copy of Evan's ASCII IPA somewhere recondite): as I've suggested before, speakers of my dialect and I imagine most others have more than one pronunciation according to stress, position in sentence,...http://www.englishforums.com/English/LostDisplacedBriticisms/59/hhvpc/Post.htm#958376Wed, 14 Jul 2004 21:03:24 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:958376pat durkinI wonder if there are any speakers of a variety ... the "Ef" pronunciation. Is he from Scotland or somewhere nearthere? I don't know, but I still want to know what that ferocious-sounding interjection is that all the MPs utter whenever ... ... House of Commons: NYAAAH! NYAAAH! NYAAAH! We don't have the word "NYAAAH!" in American political English, you see. In theater- and perhaps movie-speak, rather than to have extras memorize particular lines to emulate crowd-speak, there appear to be a couple of words given to the to say repeatedly, all the while doing various stage business (businesses?). I think "bridge" is one of them. I think mumble and mutter and the like are too indistinct to yield a...http://www.englishforums.com/English/LostDisplacedBriticisms/59/hhvpc/Post.htm#958351Wed, 14 Jul 2004 20:26:16 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:958351areffI wonder if there are any speakers of a variety of BrE who has created an initialism for the phenom ... in London). It was the Speaker who consistently used the "Ef" pronunciation. Is he from Scotland or somewhere near there? I don't know, but I still want to know what that ferocious-sounding interjection is that all the MPs utter whenever the Prime Minister says anything. E.g.: Tory Blair: No one lied. No one made up the intelligence ... House of Commons: NYAAAH! NYAAAH! NYAAAH! We don't have the word "NYAAAH!" in American political English, you see. But seriously, I've noticed many British speakers of various dialectal stripes lowering /I/ to /E/. Some Americans do a similar thing. Tory Blair himself is...http://www.englishforums.com/English/LostDisplacedBriticisms/59/hhvpc/Post.htm#957929Wed, 14 Jul 2004 20:11:16 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:957929pat durkinI wonder whether he's a BrE, say, who is hearing some particular American accent's /E/ realization as an /i/. PIPs, for example, will say "semi" in a way that might sound like "simmy" or "simm-eye" to PINPs. I wonder if there are any speakers of a variety of BrE who has created an initialism for the phenom of "effing" in place of "iffing". The thought occured to me while watching the PM speaking to the House of Commons this morning (or PM in the pm, in London). It was the Speaker who consistently used the "Ef" pronunciation. Is he from Scotland or somewhere near there? Does that vowel shift occur with other following consonants, or is it limited, as Richard's appears...http://www.englishforums.com/English/MethodsPoliteInstruction/17/lzqjl/Post.htm#948676Wed, 30 Jun 2004 02:53:57 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:948676maria conlonI know dialects and idiolects differ on this pernt, but in my dialect "gram" and "Graham" and "graham" and, I ... I'm talking from, what with the vowel shift and all. A Southern US speaker would probably have even more trouble. "Graham" (the first name) is "Gra-um" to me; "Graham" (the surname) is "Gra-m," that is, just a shade more than one syllable; "graham" (the cracker) is usually "gra-m" also. But none of that is written in cement. I can switch at a moment's notice, and I think that there's no *one and only official* pronunciation for any of the G/grahams. So if one of your names is Graham (no matter how it's spelled), just say...http://www.englishforums.com/English/NotAboutCienfuegos/2/lzqcw/Post.htm#948608Tue, 29 Jun 2004 23:29:31 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:948608areffI think all of your cot/caught vowels sound like normative CINC AmE "aw". Suddenly you're throwing around this word "normative", which means about the same as "prescriptive". No one can be rightfully prescribing (normatizing?) a pronunciation of the vowel in "caught" or "cot". I guess it's true that I've been misusing "normative". I really mean "positive", or "descriptive in the Ray Wisean sense". I think there's a set of "aw"s out there that are considered preferable in educated American speech. For many such speakers the vowel will be a low back vowel, perhaps with little or no rounding. You seem to be implying that people who...http://www.englishforums.com/English/NotAboutCienfuegos/2/lzqcw/Post.htm#948593Tue, 29 Jun 2004 22:48:46 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:948593bob cunninghamA certain AUE contributor has deluded himself into thinking there's a substantial difference between my vowels in "call" and "Bob" in that remark. In general I agree; You agree that "a certain AUE contributor has deluded himself ... "? Thank you. I think all of your cot/caught vowels sound like normative CINC AmE "aw". Suddenly you're throwing around this word "normative", which means about the same as "prescriptive". No one can be rightfully prescribing (normatizing?) a pronunciation of the vowel in "caught" or "cot". In particular, he imagines that my vowel in "call" can ... which is the vowel (O), the open-mid back rounded vowel. I...http://www.englishforums.com/English/MethodsPoliteInstruction/17/lzqjl/Post.htm#948591Tue, 29 Jun 2004 22:43:24 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:948591areffWhen people write to me addressing me as "Graham", I usually reply with "who?" That might work for the spoken name, too. Have you tried that on US speakers that call you "Gram"? Or is that pronunciation only used when talking about the crackers? I know dialects and idiolects differ on this pernt, but in my dialect "gram" and "Graham" and "graham" and, I guess, "Graeme" all have the same pronunciation, rhyming with "spam" and "jam" and so forth. Strangely enough, and I've remarked upon this before, I heard my sister some years ago pronounce "Graham" (as in the cracker) as "grayum" /greI@m/, two syllables, which I gather is...http://www.englishforums.com/English/Chicks/lzkck/post.htm#946835Sun, 27 Jun 2004 04:09:05 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:946835robert bannisterSkitt filted: I'm also fluent in Cat (and the related Mountain Lion), and have a serviceable smattering of conversational Coyote..r You'll have noticed then, that while Cat contains a wide variety of vowel sounds, they don't bother much with consonants. (My research, is, admittedly, limited to BrCat users). There is, sadly, no example of a cat purring. I love the French 'ron-ron', which with a good gutteral 'r' sounds quite authentic. We don't even have a word in English that I can think of. Rob Bannisterhttp://www.englishforums.com/English/Chicks/lzkck/post.htm#946701Sat, 26 Jun 2004 17:16:24 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:946701django catSkitt filted: You, obviously, speak a dialect of Dog (not a human language). I'm also fluent in Cat (and the related Mountain Lion), and have a serviceable smattering of conversational Coyote..r You'll have noticed then, that while Cat contains a wide variety of vowel sounds, they don't bother much with consonants. (My research, is, admittedly, limited to BrCat users). DChttp://www.englishforums.com/English/PronunciationOfCatholic/5/ldxkr/Post.htm#940278Thu, 17 Jun 2004 20:41:15 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:940278mike lyle"father" vowel) I remember going, when I liked organized religion, to the C of E St Barnabas in Oxford just for the smell and the routines! I remember talking to the Catholic priest in Dulverton, Devon, way back when, and him saying what a chuckle he got from noting that his new Totally-Official altar-cards were in English when an Anglican priest down the road was affecting the Latin form. The Anglican insistence on being 'catholic' isn't a fair subject for mockery, of course: the theory is that one believes everything 'Western' and 'universal', except that the Papacy depended on certain doctrinal weaknesses (check with Henry VIII, Erasmus, and Luther on this one, not me). Irrelevantly, I remember...http://www.englishforums.com/English/CilantroOrCoriander/12/lrxqn/Post.htm#924162Mon, 31 May 2004 01:49:59 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:924162skittHuh? The Spanish "a" is noticeably different from both the ... some influencing in New York (Largest City in America) too? You are correct, sir, but Mexicans do not dominate their number, unlike the Latino communities in the West and Midwest. ... have no reason to think that they bother to (misguidedly, to be sure) use 'ah' (= CIC 'aw') in 'cilantro'. There's another thing because I grew up speaking Latvian (and then German), I still remember how to pronounce all the vowels the "right" way, not the English way. ;-) For Spanish or Mexican words, all I do is revert to that pronunciation. Skitt (AUE's token Latvian)http://www.englishforums.com/English/Pronunciation/2/kqcvz/Post.htm#917179Mon, 24 May 2004 02:22:35 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:917179steve hayesNo, but there are some who pronouce both "cot" and ... help him by suggesting the Zulu word "ithole" - "calf". That's a separate issue, innit? The vast majority of Americans use the "cat" vowel (phonemically speaking) in "calf", while many ... which appears to be a British approximation of AmE "diner" or "greasy spoon" or (New YorkE) "coffeeshop", sans Greek proprietors. I use the same vowel in "cart", "father" and "calf" Some Americans seem to me to use the same vowel in "caught" and "cot" as well, hence the association. The American was speaking rapidly? Was he from New York (Home of the Fastest Talking...http://www.englishforums.com/English/Pronunciation/2/kqcvz/Post.htm#916211Sun, 23 May 2004 13:00:16 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:916211areffThere aren't any English speakers (in the US or elsewhere) who merge cot, caught, *and* cart, are there? No, but there are some who pronouce both "cot" and "caught" in the same way that non-rhotic spreakers pronounce "cart", ... stopped, and asked "What's a caff?". I was able to help him by suggesting the Zulu word "ithole" - "calf". That's a separate issue, innit? The vast majority of Americans use the "cat" vowel (phonemically speaking) in "calf", while many English dialects rooted in or otherwise affiliated with certain southern Englandish dialects use the "father" vowel in "calf". IOW, Americans rhyme "calf" and...http://www.englishforums.com/English/IsCreshEnglish/kmcrz/post.htm#898487Mon, 03 May 2004 03:37:02 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:898487peter moylanDylan Nicholson infrared: "Crèche", always in RobertE's UK sense, often retains its French grave accent and the vowel is closer to that of "air" rather than "mesh". In Aus. I've only ever heard it pronounced 'craysh' (i.e. with a diphthong). And I've certainly never heard it used to refer to a nativity scene. Ditto here, so I'll conjecture that 'craysh' is the near-universal Australian pronunciation. In addition, the grave accent is omitted in Australian usage. (Nor do we add an acute accent.) I use the French pronunciation and spelling when speaking French, but that's a different matter; for me, 'creche' sans accent mark is a fully naturalised English word. In...http://www.englishforums.com/English/LongAOrShortAVowelSound/4/jqvlk/Post.htm#837266Thu, 12 Feb 2004 20:54:45 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:837266apurbva chandra senrayI have no regional accent that I'm aware of - I talk just like they do on television and in ... vowel sound within the words in question, so I can't believe it's a regional thing that's causing me this dispute. It's not quite as simple as that. There isn't one, uniform general American accent. There's plenty of room for variation, even if you don't have a specifically regional accent. Despite all the feedback I've gotten to the contrary, I still firmly believe that it's the long a sound. I've tried hard to be convinced otherwise, but I just can't be swayed on this. I think you're approaching this the wrong way. You say it one way; I and many others you've consulted say it another...http://www.englishforums.com/English/LongAOrShortAVowelSound/3/jqvlk/Post.htm#836580Thu, 12 Feb 2004 05:05:53 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:836580meg annei hit e beet u put u boot Of course in English (general American anyway), these pairs of vowels are not distinguished simply by length. The ... of them also pronounce "milk" as "melk" (mElk) and often use the "liquid L" in the initial and medial positions. Thank you for your input. If OP means "original poster," then that's me. I am from upstate New York originally (way upstate, north of Albany)... I have no regional accent that I'm aware of - I talk just like they do on television and in the movies (that's the best comparison I can think of since to me that just represents mainstream America...) My mom, who's from the same geographical area, disagrees with me on the vowel sound...http://www.englishforums.com/English/Spectrograms/jmzdz/post.htm#813029Tue, 20 Jan 2004 18:49:17 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:813029evan kirshenbaumI've been noodling around the net but there's too much for me to take in. I'm interested in knowing how ... on aue had a spectrogram made of them saying 'mary merry marry' how similar and how different might they look? When I took Phonology in about 1983, the prof discussed their use in court. Essentially, there are sufficient differences between speakers that it is often trivial to take two spectrograms of the same sentence (say one off a recording and one given by the defendent) and say confidently "These were not made by the same person, even though they are indistinguishable to the ear". On the other hand, if someone says on the basis of sound spectrograms "This recording was made by the defendent...http://www.englishforums.com/English/AfterInvestigationTruthAboutRevealed/8/jmrjx/Post.htm#812072Sun, 18 Jan 2004 23:25:45 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:812072raymond s. wiseIt's not a matter of "how some British newspapers think 'macho'should be pronounced," but how the British actually pronounce it. (snip dictionary links) I think you are giving too much credit to we (us) Britishers. Either that or I have ... just don't come into it. We haven't got that far yet. It's still a question of hard or soft 'ch'. With your mention of "haitches," I have to conclude that you did misunderstand my point. I was speaking only of the difference between the American and the British pronunciations of the first vowel in "macho." It didn't even occur to me that there was some controversy concerning other sounds in the word. I have, in fact, heard British...http://www.englishforums.com/English/SpelingRefohrm/17/jbzzm/Post.htm#770895Tue, 09 Dec 2003 23:01:56 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:770895r fThat makes sense to me too, but it suggests that ... New England accents too). That (e@) does sound rather quack-like. How do you write your cat, half, chat, that vowel, RF? I mean in your phonetic description? You'd have to check with Jonathan Jordan or a fallible Praat device, but I think my cat/chat vowel is right about where I hear the Northern Cities "cot" vowel (also known as "Chicago pop"). I don't think it's as low as the Sheffield cat vowel, or the Cheshire cat one FTM. That would put it at a suburban Milwaukee "cot", I'd guess, but I have no illusions about more rustic parts of W'scansin, like where all the dairy farms must be. Baseline Sheffield "cat" is dead (a), I...http://www.englishforums.com/English/SpelingRefohrm/15/jbzzm/Post.htm#769912Tue, 09 Dec 2003 04:23:33 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:769912skittReally? I recognize it, and I went to school here. Of course, I'm different ... Could it be that the distinction is recognized in Latvian? That would explain a lot. Different ballgame altogether, but in general, each vowel or a particular vowel combination has its own pronunciation, and it is not influenced by the surrounding letters. What might come into play for the cot/caught thing is my desire to be clearly understood when speaking. Skitt (in Hayward, California) www.geocities.com/opus731/http://www.englishforums.com/English/CapOrCup/jcwhb/post.htm#764201Thu, 04 Dec 2003 17:27:34 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:764201jonathan jordanIt seems that every time I post a comment it provokes a load ofdiscussion threads. But not to be detered, ... changes. Forinstance, they say " 'ospikal" when they mean "hospital", or "ee 'ant gotnone" instead of "he doesn't have any". True. (I'm from Sheffield, though I don't have a very strong dialect myself.) I have even heard an educated(?) businessman say "Ey loowk! Ee got like wot I got!". I guess you mean "look" with the vowel of "boot" rather than that of "put". I think this is a low-prestige variant in Sheffield, though I have reason to believe that it's more standard in some other parts of northern England. But in spite of all...http://www.englishforums.com/English/BbcEnglish/5/jrgvv/Post.htm#756324Wed, 26 Nov 2003 18:56:07 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:756324yusuf b gurseyRedundancy of the week: a reporter spoke of the "official state visit" made by GWB. OED has 'state visit, a visit by a head of state to a foreign country for ceremonial rather than official purposes' so it seems a 'state visit' isn't always official. Major irritation of the month: a memo must've gone round ... hears say something that sounds much more like the latter. not at all, and the first sounds more correct. it's al-qa:3ida(t) (phonemically. neglect teh feature I transcribed as (t) for the moment). the important points are that /a:/ is long, /a/ is short and /i/ is short. /3/ is a pharynggeal fricative, which most non-arabs speaking languages that borrow heavily from arabic tend to replace...http://www.englishforums.com/English/PronouncingTheLetterA/2/jrgdd/Post.htm#754098Mon, 24 Nov 2003 16:05:16 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:754098pat durkinWhile it was 23/11/03 10:39 pm throughout the UK, Pat Durkin sprinkled little black dots on a white screen, and they fell thus: My practice: Standalone "A", if it is an adjective or ... converts to "an": An historical, an honor, an apple, another. Over here, /h/ is a consonant. Or do you drop that sound in "historical" where you are? Now, come on, Stewart. I wrote "an historical" and "an honor". Tell me you don't get the "H" out of there when you say those words. Or, maybe you do say "This is truly a honor" (heavily aspirated "H" sound, as in "ahem.) I grew up calling this the "short A" sound. Calling what the "short A"?...http://www.englishforums.com/English/PronouncingTheLetterA/jrgdd/post.htm#753991Mon, 24 Nov 2003 13:11:26 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:753991stewart gordonWhile it was 23/11/03 10:39 pm throughout the UK, Pat Durkin sprinkled little black dots on a white screen, and they fell thus: My practice: Standalone "A", if it is an adjective or article in initial or mid-phrase position, varies in pronunciation depending on the beginning sound of the following word. "A" before vowels and vowel sounds converts to "an": An historical, an honor, an apple, another. Over here, /h/ is a consonant. Or do you drop that sound in "historical" where you are? I grew up calling this the "short A" sound. Calling what the "short A"? /&/ as in "cat" or /@/ as in "above"? /&/ was "short A" when I went to school. I...http://www.englishforums.com/English/IDS/14/wmkwj/Post.htm#735274Fri, 07 Nov 2003 21:23:36 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:735274jonathan jordanWhat's that meant to represent? Pronunciation-wise? I think it has to be /wUk/, like "shook". I thought you probably meant /wUk/, though I'm familiar with some accents which have /u/ in words (and "snooker" has /u/ in mine). That distinction isn't exactly easy to describe with phonetic spelling. But I was wondering who actually uses "wook" in this way. Apart from R J Valentine, that is. (I would use "woken", which I think is standard in BrE.) Speaking of RJV, I'm surprised that we haven't seen any comparisons of Michael Hamm's "com", "calm" and "long" vowels to the alleged canonical "ah" and "aw". Jonathanhttp://www.englishforums.com/English/NewPageSitePronunciationNewsgroup-ContributorsNames/32/wgqcv/Post.htm#732771Wed, 05 Nov 2003 21:04:36 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:732771r fOn 3 Nov 2003 14:48:00 -0800, I wrote, in part: It's at http://www.math.wustl.edu/~msh210/recording.html Well, I've now listened to Mr. Hamm's recording, though I will continue to study it on future occasions. My comments: First of all, it's dead obvious that this fellow is from New York (Largest City in America). I wouldn't be dead sure about what borough or neighborhood, though, as it is reminiscent of certain Manhattan as well as Brooklyn accents that I have known in my day, not to mention the accent of one Flushing, Queens person I have known. Second of all, it's dead obvious that this fellow is MINMINM, whether he realizes it or not. In particular, his "marry" vowel is wholly distinct from his...http://www.englishforums.com/English/Librate/3/wllhj/Post.htm#731410Tue, 04 Nov 2003 03:37:50 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:731410r h draneyDonna Richoux filted: Of course, you and I wouldn't mean the same thing by "aspidester," either. I played the first part again; the ... usual "uh" ending that Brits usually say when the word ends in -er. It's a much tighter sound than that. Having listened to the file again after posting that link, I notice what you're talking about...I'm still not sure about that third vowel, either; before today I would have sworn it was (&), but now I'm hearing (e) or possibly (E).. This is also not the recording I'm familiar with from the Dr Demento show all those years ago...that was a wartime version where the last verse concludes "they're going to hang owld Hitler from the very highest bough...http://www.englishforums.com/English/AhArAwOrAwAhAr/8/whnzz/Post.htm#712810Fri, 17 Oct 2003 15:27:54 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:712810woody wordpeckerThat is a definition of /A./: what /A./ is is a particular vowel phoneme. Which one? It's the ... an unambiguous definition; moreover, it's defined in terms of the things that phonemed ought to be defined in terms of. If it's a definition, it's a useless one, because it doesn't mean the same thing to everyone. I have no way of knowing what sounds are included in the phoneme you're calling /A./, so the definition tells me little about how words may be pronounced. If phonemes have any use at all in a discussion of pronunciation, it appears that that use will be restricted to a community of speakers who have the same phonemes. They can't possibly have much value in an international forum, unless each phoneme...http://www.englishforums.com/English/AhArAwOrAwAhAr/8/whnzz/Post.htm#712654Fri, 17 Oct 2003 13:45:03 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:712654aaron j. dinkinDefining /A./ as the vowel phoneme used in "cot", "bother", ... have the same phoneme. There are dialects where they don't. That's not a definition of turned-script-a. It's a statement of how turned-script-a is used. A definition should say what something is, not how it's used. That is a definition of /A./: what /A./ is is a particular vowel phoneme. Which one? It's the one found in "cot", "bother", "Ross", and "Bob" in the dialect at issue. This is an unambiguous definition; moreover, it's defined in terms of the things that phonemed ought to be defined in terms of. A definition of IPA turned-script-a is that it's the low, back, rounded vowel. This...