Re: Pronunciation differences

raindoctor — Tue, 13 Oct 2009 18:00:01 GMT

r after any vowel has a special place in english. oor usually end up as ʊɚ, ɔɚ, oʊɚ poor: pʊɚ moore: mʊ ɚ , mɔ ɚ , moʊ ɚ floor: fl ɔ ɚ , floʊ ɚ door: d ɔ ɚ d oʊ ɚ oo before any but r: boom: bum doom: dum hood: h ʊd good: gʊd wood: wʊd hook: hʊk food: fud proof: pruf school: skuo (the last o shud be transcribed as a satellite, since vocalized l shud be there). Now, you can notice the pattern.

Re: Phonetic differences between English and Spanish

anonymous — Tue, 13 Oct 2009 17:23:45 GMT

The vowel in the English "family" is formed with the back of the tongue very high in the mouth (look in a mirror). The Spanish "a" is like the English in "Say 'AHHHH.'" The location of the tongue in the Spanish "a" is closer to the position of the English "u." That is probably why you think they sound the same.

Re: Welsh accent (to be more precise, Tom Jones's)

colombo — Fri, 02 Oct 2009 10:04:19 GMT

Instead of worrying about perceptions (auditory phonetics), try to produce variations (articulatory phonetics): how to produce a fronted /u:/ ? That seems a very good idea. I think I might try to change from one vowel to the other by knowing whether I must make it more to the front, to the back, more open... But I don't know how I can know whether I'm producig the right vowel, or any other. Are there mp3 recordings of isolated vowels that are long enough so I can try to adjust the vowel I produce to the vowel I hear, and then maintain it for some time? I should try to save them in my computer so I can practice at home.

Re: Welsh accent (to be more precise, Tom Jones's)

raindoctor — Thu, 01 Oct 2009 07:45:14 GMT

Focus on the variation of vowels in various accents: phonetic differences. Sometimes, you can see phonemic differences as is the case between BrE and AmE. Most of the transcriptions are broad, like the ones we see in dictionaries. Mastering narrow transcription, which requires you to train your ears to notice all variations/subtlities, is the key to understand variatiations.

Re: General AM Eng-pronunciation of talk, caught and bought

freekarol — Wed, 30 Sep 2009 13:45:08 GMT

I thank you all for your effort to help me and of course for your time... I think my questions were answered. Especially a reply by Marvin A. completely answered my questions. What pronunciation to choose depends on what American accent you want to have. If you don't want to have a certain American accent then the best way to be understood by most Americans is to use pronunciation what most Americans use: the Open back unrounded vowel for all of those words.

Re: the pronunciation of the word "the"

anonymous — Mon, 28 Sep 2009 09:54:52 GMT

What about The United States (of America)? Thuh or Thee? Some say that when U is pronounced as "you", then the consonant rule applies, and when the U sounds like "uh", then the vowel rule applies. Is this a grammatical rule, or a regional variation, or a misunderstanding?

Re: English and spanish phonetic sounds with their phonetic differences

anonymous — Mon, 28 Sep 2009 06:56:50 GMT

well the English D and T sound like a Spanish R (not double R but just R) - the Spanish J sounds like a English H - the Spanish L and English L don't sound alike (they are different sounds), and the same happened with the Spanish and English T (they are different sounds) - In English when one pronounce the letter "P" one relieses a puff of air, in Spanish you don't do that (that's what makes the Spanish and English T different too, by the way) - the English N and M's sounds are way longer than the Spanish ones - the Spanish Y and Spanish LL (or, double L) sound alike, and their sound is that of a English "J", unlike most people think, is the Spanish Y and double LL are not pronounce like an...

How to Pronounce New York?

ilrrr-n — Sat, 26 Sep 2009 13:23:50 GMT

I know new separately is pronounced the same way as gnu . But Merriam-Webster’s pronunciation guide says the following about the pronunciation of new: " in place names usually (ˌ)nu̇ or nə or (ˌ)ni\ " Those would be the same vowels as in noo k, bana na and ni ckel respectively. So which one is the most prevalent? How about New Jersey, New Mexico, New Orleans and New Zealand?

Re: The pronunciation of MERLE

raindoctor — Sun, 20 Sep 2009 18:42:53 GMT

What pakis do or any L2 learners to: L2-ize foreign words, the way L1 english speakers anglicize foreign words. Urdu, Hindi speakers may pronounce merle as mɛ rlɛ. Look at the syllables: mɛ and rlɛ. Observe two things here: (1) CV and CCV syllables; (2) -rl- cluster in the onset. -rl- cluster in the onset is not permitted in english. Second, vowel + r in english plays very important role. Third, cluster of sonorants need a special treatment in english: splitting em into different syllables. mer + le > mer + uh l > mur + ul > mɚ ə l or mɚ oʊ Look at some vowel + r combinations: ar > ɛɚ (this is true only when some consonant doesn't follow r. Contrast carbon, mars, art, etc) er, ir, ur > ɚ or > ɔɚ eer >...

Re: Where do I put the stress?

raindoctor — Fri, 18 Sep 2009 15:57:10 GMT

Dipsik, Check M-W, Jones and Wells dictionaries, see whether 'seg' in segment does have a reduced vowel. I am not a fan of rule; however, I would like to look for an explanation that accounts many disparate pronunciation phenemona. Posterity, hostility, costectomy, nostolgia, cosmetic, etc--these contradict your hypothesis that in unstrssed syllables, vowels are reduced/neutral. For more, check this book Pronouncing english: a stress-based approach by Teschner.

Re: Pronunciation

raindoctor — Mon, 07 Sep 2009 18:57:23 GMT

What's your point? I made an implicit point: it is not cognitively productive to remember pronounciation for every word. What learners should be taught: a set of heuristics to find possible pronunciations for a word. Mastery of phonetics (or how to produce bilabial fricative, etc) does not help much. English phonology helps. Since it is a 3-syllable word, it can have two variations: stress-unstressed-stressed; unstressed-stressed-unstressed. When a syllable gets stressed, it usually attracts consonants to the onset as well as the coda; it also allows for consonant clustering (wis-'con-sin vs. wi-'scon-sin). Suffixes also give a clue on where stress falls (for instance, one can predict where primary stress falls in...

Re: Pronunciation

raindoctor — Sun, 06 Sep 2009 20:26:13 GMT

It is a three syllable word, and there is a vowel cluster. Therefore, the middle syllable get unstressed. The vowel cluster -eu- is not an english one; anglicizing it leads to /u/, cf. deuce, Neuce, etc 'bɛt əl ˌdʒus, /t/ is a tapped t

American 'a' in 'can' /æ/ or /e/?

dokterjokkebrok — Sun, 06 Sep 2009 18:23:56 GMT

Is there a difference in the pronunciation of General American 'back' and RP 'back'? For example as in: I came back Wednesday. The reason for asking is because my pronouncing dictionary gives the /æ/ intermediate vowel for both General American and Received Pronunciation in words like 'back', 'slack','bad', 'attack' , etc. But when I listen carefully to how Americans pronounce it, I'd swear it sounds more like /e/. Is that true? Or is something else the case? Thank you in advance! Regards Dokterjokkebrok

Re: KK and phonics?

raindoctor — Sun, 06 Sep 2009 17:24:02 GMT

In phonics, people are brought to the attention that a set of words have the same vowel quality. In KK, this vowel quality is transcribed using IPA. If I am teaching kids, I dont want to burden them with IPA. Phonics consists of set of heuristics or generalizations, which are not true always. But they help you localize what the possible sounds are when they encounter a new word. We know how to pronounce astronomy: ə ˈstrɑn əmi. How to pronounce a word aptronomy. Kids usually say ə' ptrɑn əmi. This is where phonics fails us. English phonology helps: s r cluster is permitted in English; but not ptr. So, we need to split aptronomy into ap-tron-o-mi. The possible pronounciation is: æp ˈtrɑn ə mi

Re: "a hydrodynamic" vs "an hydrodynamic"

anonymous — Fri, 21 Aug 2009 14:48:16 GMT

Using “a” and “an” Before Words Raphael asks: When should I use “a” and when should I use “an” before the different words? For example, should I say “a hour” or “an hour?” I stumble over this everytime and dont’t know if I’m getting it right, as I’m not speaking and writing English natively. The Rule The rule states that “a” should be used before words that begin with consonants (e.g., b, c ,d) while “an” should be used before words that begin with vowels (e.g., a,e,i). Notice, however, that the usage is determined by the pronunciation and not by the spelling, as many people wrongly assume. You should say, therefore, “an hour” (because hour begins with a vowel sound) and “a history” (because history begins with a consonant...

Re: How to pronounce Pacino, Scorsese and Sean

tanit — Sat, 04 Jul 2009 21:13:16 GMT

I won't argue with you, of course you're right, you're a native Italian! You can argue! After all, Italian has many variants and I can speak only for mine. After doing some search on the internet, I've found this dictionary where you can listen to the pronunciation of ro s a and to that of s ole (just type one word in the box, click on the result and press the red arrow next to the phonetic trancription of the word in the pop-up). I've also managed to find an easy list of rules to help you decide whether s should pronounced /s/ or /z/. This allows for an explanation of the pronunciation of the three s's in Scorsese : The first one is pronounced /s/ because it's at the beginning of the word (also,...

Re: Double consonants f, l, k, s, z in verb's infinitive

alpheccastars — Sat, 16 May 2009 02:09:19 GMT

It is just convention. English spelling is not 100% consistent or regular. There have been many attempts at spelling reform, but none so far has gained any traction. There is no "academy" for English, as there can be for other languages. The convention may be based on the origins of the words in Latin, Greek, Germanic, or others such as Old French. That being said, though, I tried to generalize a phonetic rule that fits. S and Z are voiced/unvoiced equivalents, and L, F, S, Z are all continuants. M, N are continuants, but they are also nasals. ck cannot be considered a doubling, it is a digraph, an alternate spelling of the K sound. There are no verbs (at least common ones) ending in J or V. When a verb ends in W, I...

Re: "O"s that use the "wuh" sound like one does...?

anonymous — Wed, 13 May 2009 04:06:05 GMT

From Dictionary.com Word History : Why do we pronounce one (wŭn) and once (wŭns) while other words derived from one, like only, alone, and atone, are pronounced with a long o? Over time, stressed vowels commonly become diphthongs, as when Latin bona became buona in Italian and buena in Spanish. A similar diphthongization of one and once began in the late Middle Ages in the west of England and in Wales and is first recorded around 1400. The vowel sound underwent a series of changes, such that the word's pronunciation went from (ōn) to (ōōōn), with two syllables, to (wōn) to (wōōn) to (wŏŏn) and finally to (wŭn). In southwest England, this diphthongization happened to other words beginning with the long o sound, such as oats,...

Post

ecossais — Fri, 08 May 2009 21:55:30 GMT

Hi! Thank you for this interesting discussion and for your answer.Your opinion is important for me. First of all, my problem concerns teaching English as a second language. It's very bad that teachers instructing pupils how to pronounce /ʌ/ usually say that you should pronounce /o/ but not rounding your lips But in fact, the /ʌ/ is closer to /a/ in most dialects, not to /o/. Pronunciation of /dæm/ or /θɔːt/ varies in different ways in different regions, but /ʌ/ is not so vague. This is usually /a/ or /ɐ/ in RP, GenAm, AU, NZ (though, it differs from /æ/, /ɑ:/, /ɑ/, /ɒ/ and there's not any merge). You can find in the net the phonetic maps and see the contemporary position of the vowel. During last century linguists have changed...

Re: Vowel [ʌ] in modern English

ecossais — Thu, 07 May 2009 22:56:46 GMT

The vowel must always be pronounced the same, since it's an IPA symbol that describe a sound. IPA symbols don't change, they are defined that way, and they remain so, so that we can describe some sounds. Hmm... But don't you think this is a little bit eh...old-fashioned? Let's see. In older dictionaries (and in many books in linguistic, too) there weren't made the differences between /ɔ/ and /ɔ:/, /ə/ and /ə:/. But nowadays if you, using broad transcription, describe /ɜ:/ and /ɒ/ as /ə:/ and /ɔ/ your work would seem outdated. I think that not we must adjust to a defined set of IPA symbols but we use it to write phonemes(and phones) of our language properly so we can change one IPA symbol to another, if this set of...

Re: Vowel [ʌ] in modern English

kooyeen — Thu, 07 May 2009 19:48:22 GMT

Hi (and welcome to Englishforums Smile), As I know, in modern English the vowel is no more pronounced as... ouch! The vowel must always be pronounced the same, since it's an IPA symbol that describe a sound. IPA symbols don't change, they are defined that way, and they remain so, so that we can describe some sounds. What happens is that dictionaries use a set of symbols even if they don't represent the real pronunciation, so you have a kind of "phonemic transcription", and not real "phonetic transcriptions". For example, from a dictionary you can understand that "bug" and "sub" have the same vowel, or that "teacher" and "better" rhyme, but it doesn't tell...

Re: What is a syllable?

danielrams07 — Sun, 05 Apr 2009 16:15:41 GMT

syllable Segment of speech usually consisting of a vowel with or without accompanying consonant sounds (e.g., a , I , out , too , cap , snap , check ). A syllabic consonant, like the final n sound in button and widen , also constitutes a syllable. Closed (checked) syllables end in a consonant, open (free) syllables in a vowel. Syllables play an important role in the study of speech and in phonetics and phonology . girl have 1 go have 1 rain 2 famous 2 hour 1 double 2 prison 2 A syllable is a basic unit of written and spoken language. It is a unit consisting of uninterrupted sound that can be used to make up words. For example, the word hotel has two syllables: ho and tel . These will be marked here as in ho/tel . Counting Syllables ...

How do I say this?

askshameer — Mon, 23 Feb 2009 08:07:57 GMT

I'm undergoing accent neutralization training. My instructor says that when a word ends with a vowel sound and if the next word starts with a vowel sound, then I'm supposed to add an "r" in between to read that out. I'm a bit confused now. Is this rule only for IPA (International Pronunciation Association)? or is it applicable to American Accent and British Accent? I'm not happy with his explanation. For ex: "idea of" becomes "idea r of" "law and order" becomes "law r andorder" /Sameer

Help! Do American & Brit English differ in the final vowel sound in CARRIED & FAMILIES?

anonymous — Sun, 22 Feb 2009 18:53:44 GMT

Is it true that in American English, the final vowel sound in CARRIED, VARIED, SOCIETIES and FAMILIES rhymes with that in FEET whilst in British, it rhymes with that in FIT? My examples above are verbs and nouns that end with an EE sound in their regular form: CARRY, VARY, SOCIETY, FAMILY I'm referring to American English as GaE (General American English) and to British English as RP (Received Pronunciation). thanks

Re: "a" or "an" before a consonant acronym

anonymous — Wed, 18 Feb 2009 16:00:16 GMT

I agree. It actually really vexes me when people use "a" in front of an acronym. Even though the previous post has been up for quite some time, maybe someone will run across this and find it helpful. Here is my reasoning: So, yes, we all know the English language is supposed to be one of the most grammatically difficult languages around. But when you think about the rules, almost all of them have some basis in logic. The reason that the English language provides two indefinite articles (both "a" and "an") is based in phonetics. It is difficult to pronounce "a" in front of any word beginning in a vowel. For example, saying "a apple" or "a egg" requires a lot more gutteral...

Re: Leave vs. Live

avangi — Fri, 02 Jan 2009 19:20:45 GMT

Hi, amylopez, Thanks for joining us. Welcome to English Forums! As far as I know, there's no vowel sound in Spanish resembling our "short i." So your pronunciation of "leave" is probably the one that's correct (like the Spanish "i" in Licha ). Do you have the same problem with "heat" and "hit"? "Seat" and "sit"? "Live" is not a good one to practice on, since it has two very different pronunciations. The verb, "I live in the city," has the short "i," like "hit." The adjective, "We had a live band at the party," has what we call a "long i," in which the letter says it's own name. It has the vowel...

Re: Ordinarily, temporarily, momentarily

paul — Thu, 18 Dec 2008 19:51:19 GMT

I am somewhat confused about the proper British pronunciation of words like "ordinarily", "temporarily", and "momentarily". As I understand it, ... American pronunciation and stress the "a" in these words. What is common and what is considered correct British? Claus I do not think either the Brits or those in the U.S. omit any vowel sound in these words completely. In other words, there are no silent syllables in these words.Theoretically, every syllable in a word is uttered with a 'stress level' different from that of the other syllables in the same word. But for practical considerations, we could say, a word with four syllables or more probably has a syllable with a primary stress and...

Re: Ordinarily, temporarily, momentarily

john briggs — Wed, 17 Dec 2008 15:27:47 GMT

I am somewhat confused about the proper British pronunciation of words like "ordinarily", "temporarily", and "momentarily". As I understand it, ... use the American pronunciation and stress the "a" in these words. What is common and what is considered correct British? The first thing to state is that the British are amazingly (and probably excessively) tolerant of Americans and American pronunciation. If they ever affect not to understand, they are making a point about cultural imperialism -) It is not so much that the "a" is silent in "ordinary", "temporary", and "momentary" as that it is so unstressed as to be practically a schwa. (The preceding vowel is...

Re: Try Saying the Alphabet...

charles a lieberman — Mon, 10 Nov 2008 19:07:26 GMT

Peter Groves Sun, 09 Nov 2008 02:44:19 GMT > Daniel Jones' EPD, which describes a pre-war kind of RP, gives the pronunciations /f(OR)lk@n/ (I'm using (OR) for the vowel of "fall") and /fOLlk@n/ (as in "folly") and notes that /f(OR)k@n/ (without the /l/) "is the usual pronunciation among those who practise the sport of falconry". What's the archipelago near the Argentinean coast (if it isn't /ma:lvIna:s/)? I read of falcons before I saw them, so I go by the spelling pronunciation /f&lk@n/. I say John Woods's character's name from "WarGames" the same way. Charles A. Lieberman > "The explanation is extremely simple. Brooklyn, New York, USA > It doesn't...

Re: Try Saying the Alphabet...

peter groves — Sun, 09 Nov 2008 02:44:19 GMT

Peter Groves filted: I was with you (more or less) ... the birds themselves are in plentiful supply around these parts.. Quite apart from the birds, Ford have had a Falcon model around for years. In my part of Australia, it ... occasions I hear the "fall" vowel, I assume the speaker is a recent immigrant from the UK. Rob Bannister It's the same in my part (Melbourne). But the car appeared after the spelling pronunciation became established, I assume. Daniel Jones' EPD, which describes a pre-war kind of RP, gives the pronunciations /f(OR)lk@n/ (I'm using (OR) for the vowel of "fall") and /fOLlk@n/ (as in "folly") and notes that /f(OR)k@n/ (without the /l/) "is the usual pronunciation among...

Re: Try Saying the Alphabet...

peter groves — Sat, 08 Nov 2008 08:23:04 GMT

Native speakers of English don't, unless dictating to children. In ... or "handbag" (which in rapid speech is indistinguishable from "ham-bag"). I'm English and have just a vestige of a "d" in handsome and a subdued but audible one in sandwich, but a full one in handbag (hand-bag). If you utter a fully released /d/ in "handbag" (hand-bag) you're using a spelling pronunciation, which is normally a result of the word in question going out of daily use. I'm English too, but I live in Australia and while my students don't say "cup-board" because they use the word on a daily basis, they do say "waist-coat", "boat-swain", "grind-stone" and...

Re: IPA and the phonetic alphabet [was: Re: "Yuuse" means /yuus/, yaw? ...pitch roll.]

john varela — Sun, 02 Nov 2008 16:47:16 GMT

With the stress on the second vowel of 'romeo', as I was taught it. The words themselves are chosen to be readily distinguishable in poor hearing conditions, and the ordained stress patterns are designed to aid this distinction. If I'm not mistaken, the change from WW2's Able, Baker, Charlie to Alfa, Bravo, Cocoa (later reverted to Charlie) was for better understanding by non-native-English speakers in NATO. John Varela Trade NEW lamps for OLD for email.

Re: WHEN IS "w" A VOWEL

missmandy — Thu, 25 Sep 2008 17:02:28 GMT

This debate really seems to be about two different things, spelling and pronunciation. The letter w (and y) is often used with other vowels (and sometimes alone as well) in spelling to reperesent a vowel sound . In the words hi and by , the letter i and the letter y are representing the same sound. To add to the confusion, English has many diphthongs, or two-sound vowels. Two-sound vowels often begin or end in a sound very similar to a w sound or y sound. The easiest to here are oy (boy) and ow (cow), which can also be spelled oi (coin) and ou (house). So, it is very clear, that in spelling , w and y are like vowels. Our educators have found it much easier to just tell our kids that those letters are vowels because they are so often part...

Re: Compounds with "non": hyphen or no hyphen?

anonymous — Fri, 28 Mar 2008 13:48:28 GMT

I'm afraid that in British English the rule *is* different. We do indeed tend to use hyphens after the prefix "non-" (which avoids the possibility of mispronouncing words such as "nonnative" ). As regards other prefixes, "pre-" and "co-" still sometimes take a hyphen (particularly where the second part of the word starts with a vowel and could lead to an erroneous pronunciation, e.g. pre-empt, co-opted). According to the Oxford English Dictionary, "micro-organism" is also the preferred form, for similar reasons.

Re: An 80% decrease ~ a 80% decrease

sprocket — Thu, 10 Jan 2008 10:31:04 GMT

I stumbled upon the latter use recently, and it got me thinking. There seems to be some exceptions to the simple rule that I still use when deciding on "a" or "an"... Don't make it too complicated! It goes almost entirely by the results when spoken. "an 80" could just as easily be written "an eighty". The mute h is fairly rare nowadays, both spoken and written, and "an hotel" would usually be considered "lah-di-dah", affectedly upper-class. "Honour" in UK English stuill has the silent H, so you would say "It's an (h)onour to be a hostess in a hotel". "a/an" NEVER takes its form from ANY word but the one after it. Honour, honesty, heir, hour-...

Re: SAMPA (was: would of [was hello])

philip baker — Sat, 18 Feb 2006 01:04:17 GMT

Yes, but John Hall implied that he heard this in ... (using SAMPA notation) but I've never noticed this. (SAMPA: http://www.phon.ucl.ac.uk/home/sampa/english.htm) SAMPA is itself quite confusing since it offers two different symbols (V and U) for vowels which are indistinguishable to me in the examples given (cut & put). There appears also to be no representation of the diphthong used in "weight". If SAMPA is confusing it is because the English vowel system is complex and there are wide variations between accents. There is another factor: SAMPA is a transliteration of the International Phonetic Association's alphabet (IPA) into ASCII. English speakers are unused to IPA because it is rarely used in pronouncing...

Re: Thuh only thing I hate.

nick wagg — Fri, 17 Feb 2006 09:50:41 GMT

The OP was referring to its pronunciation before a vowel sound. Oh. The entrance is on the second floor (the / thee) ? A Mexican might use "thee" but an Englishman never would. Mind you, a Yorkshireman might use "t" and someone from The Potteries could well use "th". Only a Mexican would use "thee". English is de

Re: How to overcome tongue-tied pronunciation?

Sat, 28 Jan 2006 23:32:01 GMT

No you wouldn't. Pronunciation skills training is part of professional ... the 'Sounds of American' stress on that particular site. DC I would serously consider sending the student to a vocal coach who could help her to sing on the vowels. ... and vocal cords. Try it... By the way, I think you meant the "right" way - not the "write way". Well I think the poster behind me meant that, certainly. If the student wanted to waste money they could go to a vocal coach, or they could take ESL/EFL lessons with a competent teacher. DC

How to overcome tongue-tied pronunciation?

Sat, 28 Jan 2006 02:03:50 GMT

Hi, I need some advice regarding ESL instruction. I don't have any formal ESL training or certification, but I do tutor some foreign students in English - mainly written English. I've been approached by a Russian student who wants to improve her pronunciation, intonation and accent. She has trouble getting her tongue around English vowels. This clearly is beyond my capabilities. But I'm wondering what kind of tutor she needs. This seems to me to require working with a linguistic therapist in a language laboratory. Am I write in thinking that even someone with formal ESL certification would not necessarily have the skills needed to help her? Where would she look for this kind of tutoring? It doesn't seem to be available at...

Re: Origin & earliest usage of "Plonker" (eg. "Rodney you Plonker")

Mon, 05 Sep 2005 21:37:16 GMT

I must be slow this morning, but I got there in the end. You are not the only one, even I did not get it straight away. As John seems to have noticed, in day to day life I am John Lawler. But when I first started posting to this group and sci.lang, I discovered that there was another John Lawler already here. After some experimentation, I settled on the Irish form of my name as a nom-de-clavier. It would be equally applicable to the other John but I got it first. I was actually born in London but my parents were both born in Ireland. Explaining the pronunciation of my surname would take quite a while. If you are interested, scan this group and sci.lang for it. One or the other contains an explanation with contributions from people whose...

Re: a foreigner's question on British pronunciation

einde o'callaghan — Wed, 15 Jun 2005 08:48:56 GMT

Hello. I've heard (say, in some British songs) the following pronunciation: the vowel in "got" was pronounced in a sort ... where a similar thing could happen, say "pot", "stop", etc. I mean I didn't notice it in Blur's singer's speech/singing. I'm not British but I lived in london for a long time. I'm unfamiliar with the song you#re referring to but it's not unusual for British singers to adopt a pseudo-American pronunciation when singing, e.g. a lot of songs by Mick Jagger. Sometimes this can be quite funny when this accent is mixed with a strong regional accent. Regards, Einde O'Callaghan

Re: a foreigner's question on British pronunciation

nick wagg — Wed, 15 Jun 2005 08:48:44 GMT

Hello. I've heard (say, in some British songs) the following pronunciation: the vowel in "got" was pronounced in a sort ... was Blur, by the way. The sound was not even short, it lasted for some time (because it's a song). Pronunciation in songs can differ quite a lot from that in ordinary speech, particularly in vowel sounds. And that's not just with pop songs. I sing with an orchestra and have been taught that certain vowel sounds can not be distinguished as the note gets higher, so we may be instructed to sing "cart" instead of "cut", for instance. The American influence does mean that since "got" is often followed by another vowel, particularly "a", the "t"...

Re: a foreigner's question on British pronunciation

matthew huntbach — Wed, 15 Jun 2005 08:39:13 GMT

I've heard (say, in some British songs) the following pronunciation: the vowel in "got" was pronounced in a sort of ... where a similar thing could happen, say "pot", "stop", etc. I mean I didn't notice it in Blur's singer's speech/singing. It just seems to be one of those things - pop songs are sung in an American accent. Perhaps it's because pop music originated from the USA, or because it's considered to be more glamorous to sing in an American accent, or because somehow the American accent fits the sound of pop music better. It's such a convention that people barely notice it and it seems to be done unconsciously. On the whole the British people seem to be remarkably tolerant...

A foreigner's question on British pronunciation

danilla — Wed, 15 Jun 2005 08:13:22 GMT

Hello. I've heard (say, in some British songs) the following pronunciation: the vowel in "got" was pronounced in a sort of American manner, more like in "but", for example. That was Blur, by the way. The sound was not even short, it lasted for some time (because it's a song). It's interesting, how you (the British) feel it. Is it felt to be something alien or just one of the British accents? Also, I didn't notice any other occurence of such pronunciation with any other words where a similar thing could happen, say "pot", "stop", etc. I mean I didn't notice it in Blur's singer's speech/singing. Thank you

Re: Shakespeare's pronunciation

phil c. — Thu, 24 Feb 2005 17:21:16 GMT

As someone living in Northern Ireland, the most accurate comment ... over the centuries by migrants from England, Scotland, and Wales. However, there are identifiable features which are common in speech across Northern Ireland. Those of us with some familiarity with ... hasn't had the great shift in pronunciation of vowels that has taken place particualrly in south-eastern English since Elizabethan times. It just sounds to me like something from a publicity handout by the Belfast Tourist Board but perhaps I'm cynical. Phil C.

Re: Shakespeare's pronunciation

matthew huntbach — Thu, 24 Feb 2005 15:15:20 GMT

I read somewhere that if you want to hear Shakespeare's ... should see a performance by a Northern Irish/Belfast theatre company. As someone living in Northern Ireland, the most accurate comment I can make on the correctness of this assertion is ... Different accents and varieties of English have been brought here over the centuries by migrants from England, Scotland, and Wales. However, there are identifiable features which are common in speech across Northern Ireland. Those of us with some familiarity with accents don't find it to detect from their speech when someone comes from the province. I guess what was really meant is that Northern Irish speech has kept some features of English which have changed in English as spoken in...

Re: Shakespeare's pronunciation

matthew huntbach — Wed, 26 Jan 2005 12:08:06 GMT

Indeed. When English was first written, it was spelt phonetically. ... English represents how English was spoken in the 16th century. It's more complicated than that. Spelling standardised (thanks to printing) shortly *after* Shakespeare's works were published (say about the middle ... Middle English, which was *before* the Great Vowel Shift. The pronunciation of some words has changed to match the spelling... If the spelling of Shakespeare's day represented Middle English, then it had already standardised. Not completely, perhaps, but enough so that there was no longer a completely phonetical representation. Matthew Huntbach

Re: Shakespeare's pronunciation

john briggs — Tue, 25 Jan 2005 13:29:57 GMT

I've never heard Shakespeare being performed with original pronunciation, so ... and spelling was much closer then than it is now. Indeed. When English was first written, it was spelt phonetically. However, by Shakepeare's time "correct" spellings were just getting established. So the spelling used in English represents how English was spoken in the 16th century. It's more complicated than that. Spelling standardised (thanks to printing) shortly *after* Shakespeare's works were published (say about the middle of the seventeenth century). Most vowel sounds have changed again since Shakespeare's day, but the spelling of Shakespeare's day reflected that of Middle English, which was *before* the Great Vowel...

Re: No one

david — Fri, 17 Dec 2004 09:23:17 GMT

I've seen Coop stores on the continent but haven't yet noticed them in Britain. In Cambridge, Massachusetts it's the habit to refer to a certain local store as the "Harvard Coop". I think they're joking when they use that pronunciation, but I've never been quite sure. Notwo have yet mentioned "zoo" which is pronounced with a single long vowel oo, but (being short for "zoological garden) really ought to have two short o's. http://www.dacha.freeuk.com/ How to make people and influence fiends

Re: pronounciation before meaning

cybercypher — Sun, 21 Nov 2004 15:36:23 GMT

Enrico C wrote on 21 Nov 2004: One can always record one's own speech and compare it with a native speaker's rendition. On the contrary, I think one can improve a lot if others listen to him/her attentively and make him/her notice ... change the sound, even better if they can explain where their tongue exactly is when they utter a certain sound. Sure, but that's not terribly practical in most EFL classes. I do spend a bit of time on trying to teach my Taiwanese students that they have to close their lips to pronounce an (m), but most of them just pronounce words like "time" as (tain) instead of (taim). That's why I I don't think it's just an individual problem, as I noticed there are common issues for...

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