http://www.englishforums.com/search/pro.htm?q=tag%3aVowels+tag%3aPronunciation+tag%3aDifference+BetweenSearch results for 'tag:Vowels tag:Pronunciation tag:Difference Between' matching tags 'Vowels', 'Pronunciation', and 'Difference Between'en-USXMOD (Build: 3616.28671)http://www.englishforums.com/English/TwoDialectsForMe/wdbpn/post.htm#684681Mon, 09 Mar 2009 09:13:31 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:684681forbesThere is, I think, a difference between pronunciation and accent, though I am not quite sure what it is. Perhaps it is a question of degree. It is perfectly possible to pronounce words correctly but with different accents. Different accents may of course involve different articulations of vowels and consonants, but they also involve other aspects like pitch and intonation. Unless learned at a young age by immersion, most people have at least a trace of a foreign accent when they speak a foreign language.http://www.englishforums.com/English/HowPronounceWordsResourcesPrices/gmqhp/post.htm#567948Fri, 19 Sep 2008 17:11:57 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:567948missmandyI think you're right on, Kooyeen. And thanks for the reply. I am a stickler in my pronunciation classes that students learn to say the -s (and -ed) endings correctly. Even though I do this, I know that native English speaking Americans rarely say that voiced endings as perfectly voiced, yet it doesn't sound like the unvoiced counterpart sound ( s sound and t sound , for these endings). I knew we said the vowel differently depending on the consonant that follows, but I didn't realize it was also changing the perception of the consonant as well. I think I will also pay attention to how my students are producing the vowels before the final consonant sound. Back to the original question, it must be correct, then, to point out...http://www.englishforums.com/English/YoureOrYour/2/gdcpl/Post.htm#516762Wed, 21 May 2008 19:29:43 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:516762kooyeenHow about people who don't know the difference between then and than ? Or there , their , and they're ? Or too and to ? Or its and it's ? Despite being wrong, they all make sense, since they are pronounced the same, except "then" vs "than". I've never understood that very well, but I recently noticed that "then" and "than" can actually be pronounced the same when the vowel in "than" is not completely reduced to a schwa. So it seems to me that in fast or normal speech you have "Better thun me", and in slower speech you have "Better then me". Maybe I'm mistaken though... Reduction and raising of / æ/ to / ɛ/ in reducible syllables is something I just...http://www.englishforums.com/English/QuestionAboutPronounceEurope/vlqjg/post.htm#393064Tue, 17 Jul 2007 05:10:01 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:393064orpheusI'd say that there is a slight difference between the US and UK pronunciation of the word. The first syllable of Europe in British English is generally pronounced with the diphthong / / while in American English it is simply with the vowel / /. The diphthong / / is a characteristic of British English and is not found in American English; American English in corresponding places would have the simple vowel / / followed by /r/. The first consonant sound /j/ on the other hand is pronounced exactly the same in both American and British English. It is the same /j/ as in 'you'.http://www.englishforums.com/English/WhatHawtSpanishThanks/vwcqw/post.htm#374472Sun, 03 Jun 2007 16:06:18 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:374472marvin a.Hwat for what is the original pronunciation and was the only form used in Middle English. In Modern English, many dialects lost the wine-whine distinction, and began pronouncing words spelled "wh" as simply "w", rather thn "hw". The original, conservative form is still around, and is considered standard in certain areas. In North America, many Southern accents preserve it. Elsewhere in N. America, it has almost completely died out, except in older speakers. However... people often hear others using it, and hear that it sounds old-fashioned and a little bit more correct, and thus add it to their own speech. I remember myself adding it to my speech for awhile. However, I've given up the habit. My grandpa has it, but I can tell that he must...http://www.englishforums.com/English/WhichPronunciationClarityPopular/4/vddhh/Post.htm#353581Sat, 21 Apr 2007 00:23:43 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:353581marvin a.Nope, a complete vowel merger means that you can neither produce nor perceive a difference between two or more vowels in a certain environment or all environments. In my dialect, the vowels and are merged in all environments so I cannot produce nor perceive any difference between them. If someone said the word "father", they could say it as or even and they would both sound the same to me and would be both perfectly acceptable pronunciations of that word. A Shibboleth between the Northern and Midlands dialects is that Northerners pronounce "on" as (or even ), with the same vowel as in "cot" whereas people from the Midland pronounce it as something like , with the same vowel as in "caught". However, for me, since the vowels in...http://www.englishforums.com/English/WhichPronunciationClarityPopular/3/vddhh/Post.htm#351804Tue, 17 Apr 2007 02:38:54 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:351804marvin a.What I meant by there's no contrast is that there are no minimal pairs (in General American). Tense and lax vowels never contrast: /Er\/ and /er\/ both mean "air". In fact, I can't even *hear* the difference between /Er\/ and /er\/ at all. They sound exactly the same, in the same way that "meat" and "meet" sound the same. In fact, if someone asked me to transcribe what the lady said, I would have writen rather than (although phonemically they're both /er\/). If I wanted to learn how to distinguish them, I would have to train in learning the difference--as they sound the *same* to me. It's a similar thing with the cot-caught-bother-father merger. I actually had to learn how to hear the difference between and and and , as all those...http://www.englishforums.com/English/WhatsDifferenceBetween/dmpdc/post.htm#315312Sun, 14 Jan 2007 23:08:24 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:315312kooyeenHi Diego, the vowels in "cup" and "cat" are very different in American English. But I see you are interested in the British pronunciation, and, well, in that case I can't tell the exact difference too Those two vowels are different, but not very much in my opinion, since I wouldn't be able to tell you what the difference is (probably because I haven't been learning British English, though). So I'm sorry, I can't help you, I can only say that I noticed that similarity between those vowels too. I'm sure someone else will reply soon and give you the info you are looking for.http://www.englishforums.com/English/AO/dlqxl/post.htmMon, 01 Jan 2007 19:14:57 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:309479eyeseeyouAccording to a book on American English pronunciation ('Lesson 12: Central and Back Vowels', page 136. I don't know the name of the book, though), /a/ is the vowel of father, box or calm. However, almost every dictionary out there establishes a difference between /a:/ and /o/, which would be the equivalento to what the book calls /a/. I find it a conflciting message. Or are the sounds of /a:/ and /o/ alike after all as the book indicates? This way, /a:/ is found in arm , father and /o/ is found in hot , rock. Note I chose to write the phonetics symbols in the ASCII code.http://www.englishforums.com/English/ImDesperateINeedHelp/dwrkz/post.htm#290103Tue, 07 Nov 2006 04:39:28 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:290103tartan8. Why do you say “She is a one-eyed teacher” and not “ She’s an one eyed teacher”? (Focus on a phonetic explanation) The article an is used before vowel sounds, not vowel letters. The word one is pronounced wun . The w is not a vowel sound even though the o in o-n-e is a vowel. So a must be used before one . 9. Miss Justine Fair listened to the two Chilean students read their passages. One of them had a strong accent . The second student had no accent at all. Who got the best mark? Why? (Focus on a Phonetic explanation) Accent is a form of mispronunciation, of giving vowels and consonants different values from their standards. Mastery of a language requires control over the sounds of the language. 10. One of the...http://www.englishforums.com/English/HardestPronunciations/dhxkb/post.htm#289377Sun, 05 Nov 2006 03:11:12 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:289377anonymousI hear and feel you. The difference between full and reduced 'i' sounds is one of the more difficult to master for many non-native English speakers, as is the unaccentuated 't' in between vowels in American English that becomes a soft 'd.' I also struggled with these when beginning to learn American English. I found it especially difficult to say the unaccentuated 't' in pattern, lattern, quarter, ardor, harder, and herder. Especially, herder! Check out these pronunciations guides at http://iteslj.org/links/ESL/Pronunciation/http://www.englishforums.com/English/HaveQuestionAboutBritishAccent/19/ghk/Post.htm#156413Tue, 08 Nov 2005 15:09:09 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:156413tallulah tamTo continue..... I think the sound quality is an important difference between the two languages besides the pronunciation. The Americans tend to drone in the middle tone, wheras the English have a more lilting quality and the Welsh more so; but the vowel sounds are what they pick up on first. When I was at University I was asked several times to say, "The car is parked in Harvard Yard".http://www.englishforums.com/English/WhatsDifferencePronunciationCompared/bhzcz/post.htm#120381Fri, 22 Jul 2005 16:16:20 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:120381anonymousHave to disagree with the vowel sound you use in B IR D is a long vowel. The long vowel "i" sound is the "i"sound in "find," "mine," "grind," "like," "tribe." The difference between the ir and er is, indeed, the accent. Probably has roots to British pronunciation (e.g., Director = British "dye-rector" as opposed to American "da-rector".) An interesting tidbit here, I think, is that the short " i" vowel in "bird" has no phonetic purpose: A "silent" vowel. Take the vowel out of "bird" or any of those "vowel-r" examples and you can still correctly pronounce the word!http://www.englishforums.com/English/DifferentPronunciationOfO/bghqz/post.htm#116998Sun, 10 Jul 2005 14:07:10 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:116998languageloverI'm afraid to say that I don't think that there is always a rule, Guest. You'll master the different pronounciations of "o" after spending some time on pronounciation and listening. However, you can get some hint from your dictionary which gives the IPA (International Phonetic Alphabet) phonetic symbols to guide you how to pronounce the word (the British dictionaries, such as Oxford, Longman, ... However, you can use an American dictionary, they also provide you with some symbols which are not international and I don't know the pronounciation of them, but if you can, it's ok). Then you'll see different symbols for "come/love/mother/above" which are pronounced as "but", "horse/force" before "r", ... The difference between these two sound...http://www.englishforums.com/English/WhatCorrectHourJourneyHourJourney/xkmg/post.htm#71893Thu, 03 Feb 2005 15:09:09 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:71893hadekaHi cball007, I found my notes which I jotted down in my ESL course. The difference between a and an is one of pronunciation, and so we also use an in front of a silent h because judging only by sound, the word begins with the vowel that follows the h. Examples: an hour, an honor, an herb American speakers treat breathy-sounding h’s as consonants and so use a. Examples: a historical book, a hoped-for outcome, a house We also use a in front of vowels when their pronunciation sounds like you. Examples: a European, a unit, a university Hope this helps! hadekahttp://www.englishforums.com/English/HowToPronuonceTheRLTAndD/mgnv/post.htm#60976Sun, 12 Dec 2004 14:01:02 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:60976mister micawberwhen you say the R , what condition your mouth and toung should be ? DRAW THE BASE OF YOUR TONGUE TOWARD THE BACK OF YOUR MOUTH-- THE TONGUE IS NOT INVOLVED IN THE 'R' SOUND. AT FIRST, PRACTICE BY PUSHING YOUR TONGUE BACK AND OUT OF THE WAY WITH A PENCIL. and how do u say WORLD .do u say it like ..WORD....or WOLD..or do u say the whole thing ..WORLD? I SAY THE WHOLE THING. TAKE YOUR TIME: FIRST AN 'R' SOUND, THEN AN 'L' SOUND. what is the difference between word and world..they sound the same! LISTEN CAREFULLY; THEY SHOULD NOT SOUND THE SAME. also the T and the D ..eg-- BETTER sounds like BErrER ..and TEDDY sounds like TErrY. THERE IS INDIVIDUAL VARIATION, BUT A REASONABLY CLEAR PRONUNCIATION OF 'BETTER' WILL...http://www.englishforums.com/English/VowelForDadVsMad/lpqlp/post.htm#997260Mon, 30 Aug 2004 00:09:09 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:997260carmen l. abruzziI notice that none of the dictionaries I have access to distinguish between the basic pronunciation of the vowel in 'dad' (/'had'/'lad'/'pad' etc.) and that in 'mad'/'sad'/'bad'. I find no difference between these vowels. But surely it's not just me that does make something of a distinction here - I believe it to be ... in that say, "Is that Sinbad?" and "Is that sin bad?" are different (even deliberately removing the natural stress pattern). Well, I agree that the stress lengthens the vowel, but this happens to all of the words you mention. Is that man dad? Is that the lad? Is that your pad? Is that what you had? As far as I can tell, only those latter 3...http://www.englishforums.com/English/NoDInMySpeech/8/lpxbv/Post.htm#996852Sun, 29 Aug 2004 08:24:29 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:996852mark barrattThe explanation (which I find convincing, but your mileage may vary) is that the puff of air is *unvoiced*, whereas all vowels are, by definition, voiced to some extent. If you try the hand-over-mouth experiment with the word "peak", for example, you should notice that the puff of air actually precedes the /i:/ sound. Compare an instance where /p/ is not usually aspirated, such as the word "speak", and you should be able to understand the difference between an aspirated and an unaspirated plosive. I now find that the Pulmonic Consonants table of the International Phonetic Association has no mention of "aspirate". There's an ... you have to look at the diacritics, where a raised "h" to the right...http://www.englishforums.com/English/LostDisplacedBriticisms/38/hhvpc/Post.htm#955560Mon, 12 Jul 2004 16:03:12 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:955560bob cunninghamIn a prefixed word I might say ('sEmi) or ('hEmi) ... ("semuh" or "hemuh"), as in "hemisphere" ('hEm@,sfIr) and "semicircle" ('sEm@,s@rkl-). I use the schwa in "hemisphere", but in any other hemi- and semi- words I can think of I use /i/ rather than /@/. "Semicircle" is /sEmisRk@l/, e.g. Of course, when you use slashes, for some people there would be no difference between /sEmi/ and /sem@/, because they wouldn't be conscious that they're different. Two vowels are in the same phoneme for a given listener who perceives them to be the same sound. For people who perceive them to be different sounds, they would be in different phonemes. Slashes are completely...http://www.englishforums.com/English/NotAboutCienfuegos/2/lzqcw/Post.htm#948608Tue, 29 Jun 2004 23:29:31 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:948608areffI think all of your cot/caught vowels sound like normative CINC AmE "aw". Suddenly you're throwing around this word "normative", which means about the same as "prescriptive". No one can be rightfully prescribing (normatizing?) a pronunciation of the vowel in "caught" or "cot". I guess it's true that I've been misusing "normative". I really mean "positive", or "descriptive in the Ray Wisean sense". I think there's a set of "aw"s out there that are considered preferable in educated American speech. For many such speakers the vowel will be a low back vowel, perhaps with little or no rounding. You seem to be implying that people who...http://www.englishforums.com/English/NotAboutCienfuegos/2/lzqcw/Post.htm#948593Tue, 29 Jun 2004 22:48:46 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:948593bob cunninghamA certain AUE contributor has deluded himself into thinking there's a substantial difference between my vowels in "call" and "Bob" in that remark. In general I agree; You agree that "a certain AUE contributor has deluded himself ... "? Thank you. I think all of your cot/caught vowels sound like normative CINC AmE "aw". Suddenly you're throwing around this word "normative", which means about the same as "prescriptive". No one can be rightfully prescribing (normatizing?) a pronunciation of the vowel in "caught" or "cot". In particular, he imagines that my vowel in "call" can ... which is the vowel (O), the open-mid back rounded vowel. I...http://www.englishforums.com/English/NotAboutCienfuegos/lzqcw/post.htm#948014Tue, 29 Jun 2004 16:18:11 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:948014areffA certain AUE contributor has deluded himself into thinking there's a substantial difference between my vowels in "call" and "Bob" in that remark. In general I agree; I think all of your cot/caught vowels sound like normative CINC AmE "aw". In particular, he imagines that my vowel in "call" can be described as the sound of "aw". If "the sound ... the pronunciation that's given to the spelling "aw" in dictionaries, which is the vowel (O), the open-mid back rounded vowel. I think it means something more than that. It's the range of sounds you'd expect sufficiently-normatively-accented AmE CINC speakers to use in "aw" words. For many such speakers the...http://www.englishforums.com/English/FatherDifferentTwist/2/lzjvd/Post.htm#946335Fri, 25 Jun 2004 17:16:06 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:946335jonathan jordanI started a new thread, because my question is not quite the same as what is under discussion in the ... a sound that, to us non-Americans, seems closer to 'a', so I started thinking about the letters 'a, o, u'. It's been frequently mentioned here that Americans (eastern New England excepted, of course) tend to use their "cot" vowel for (a) vowels in other languages. I found it hard to find contrasting words - I wanted 'cart, cot,cut', but of course this would make no ... question is, what exactly is the difference between the Standard American pronunciations of 'bomb' and 'bum'? Is it just vowellength? Are you saying that a typical American pronunciation of "cot" etc....http://www.englishforums.com/English/ThanThenPronunciation/lcglm/post.htm#931806Mon, 07 Jun 2004 21:07:21 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:931806dylan nicholsonWhat's the general distribution of people who do, or do ... simply down to care with one's diction, wherever you are? There's one who pronounces them identically (when they're unstressed) in Northern New Mexico. Maybe a phonologist could tell the difference between my "than" and my "then", but I doubt whether anyone else could. Are you saying that both collapse to a schwa when unstressed, or that 'than' doesn't? I can't imagine an everyday sentence containing 'than' where it wouldn't come out as a schwa for me, unless I was making a very particular point of pronouncing each word very deliberately and carefully. OTOH, 'Then' always gets just enough stress to get a...http://www.englishforums.com/English/TrilledR/5/kqxdb/Post.htm#925960Tue, 01 Jun 2004 17:36:30 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:925960aaron j. dinkinNot at all (though that may be the use of ... in "cut" in the most conventionally standard varieties of English. Well, I wasn't being entirely serious. But I'm sure I've read something that implied that the 19th century RP "cut" ... the IPA symbol, and that that was at least part of the reason for the way that (V) is used. That's certainly possible. But I'd suggest that a contributing factor to the reason (V) is still used, after all that time, instead of being replaced by a symbol that represents a central vowel, is phonological theory's general indifference between central and back vowels. Whatever the reason, it seems to me to be potentially confusing. How would you write a vowel used in...http://www.englishforums.com/English/Pastries/3/lrnvg/Post.htm#925612Tue, 01 Jun 2004 12:05:19 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:925612jonathan jordanfriends, I presume "passkey" is usually just pronounced "pass key". ... how Isay "ASCII", so I wouldn't say that they rhyme. "Pass key" would be pronounced with equal stress on each word, but"passkey" has primary stress on the first syllable (source: MWCD11). It's likethe difference between "the green house" and "the greenhouse." That was actually the pronunciation I meant - apologies for not being clearer. The problem is that the vowel I use at the end of "pasty", "ASCII" etc. is a weak /I/, not the same as the vowel I use in "key". Jonathanhttp://www.englishforums.com/English/GuessGas/4/lrnvn/Post.htm#925282Tue, 01 Jun 2004 01:15:56 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:925282peter moylanrewboss infrared: In American English there are fairly significant differences among different accents in how /&/ and /E/ are pronounced. And for many foreign students (Germans certainly) the difference is infinitesimal. In a long-ago thread on the pronunciation of Händel we were told that the German ä was pronounced /E/ in mainstream German but /&/ in some regional dialects. That sort of observation might well make it easier for Germans to remember the difference between the two English vowels. (Assuming that somebody knows which regions are involved.) Peter Moylan peter at ee dot newcastle dot edu dot au http://eepjm.newcastle.edu.au (OS/2 and eCS information and software)http://www.englishforums.com/English/TrilledR/6/kqxdb/Post.htm#921215Thu, 27 May 2004 18:20:41 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:921215jonathan jordanInteresting examples. Those are one (sic) syllable words for me. . . . Two syllables for me; no diphthong. But they all have about the same quantity! so to say that has oneof something but has two ... to say that Miss Moore's syllable-count poems have a foundationin the natural sonics of the language. English syllables are squishy! OK, but how would you explain the difference between a diphthong and a sequence of vowels? E.g. (in my dialect, northern English) drAWIng (sequence) vs. bOIng (diphthong) or pIAnist (sequence) vs. thEAtre (diphthong). I think my intuitive response (as a non-linguist) to the question of how many syllables an English word contains is the same as the number of vowel phonemes it contains. But this obviously...http://www.englishforums.com/English/TrilledR/6/kqxdb/Post.htm#921083Thu, 27 May 2004 14:51:35 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:921083areffSo too for me. "Theater" and "idea" (each two syllables) are, I think, the only words where I have a diphthong /i@/. Really? Did you mean to exclude words where that sound does not have primary stress (e.g. "area", "reawoke")? Even so, how about these: Those are *three*-syllable words. In "idea" and "theater" the sound is a diphthong, creating a single syllable. Trust me. For others it might not be so. Korea, Maria, Thea, diarrhoea, etc. Three, three, three, and four syllables, respectively. No diphthong. deal, heal, meal, peal, real, teal, veal etc. Interesting examples. Those are one syllable words for me, and I think of them as having the /i/ vowel, but before /l/ I do seem...http://www.englishforums.com/English/Pronunciation/3/kqcvz/Post.htm#915130Sat, 22 May 2004 00:37:15 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:915130de781Fernando G" As a native Spanish speaker I have a hard time to distinguish the difference between the vowels in * cut You don't have this sound in Spanish. Your "u" is what we call our "long U"; the "u" in "cut" is our "short U". It's not "oo", but it's like "uh", as in "upper". * cot Like your "a" sound. * caught Like your "o" sound. Are there any clues on how should I shape my mouth/lips/tongue/vocal chords/whatever to pronounce these vowels correctly? For the "U", just open your mouth wide and breathe out, as if you're clearing your throat.http://www.englishforums.com/English/Pronunciation/2/kqcvz/Post.htm#914602Fri, 21 May 2004 09:40:21 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:914602steve hayesAs a native Spanish speaker I have a hard time to distinguish the difference between the vowels in * cut * cot * caught Are there any clues on how should I shape my mouth/lips/tongue/vocal chords/whatever to pronounce these vowels correctly? If it's any help, I say it like this: cut - lips pulled back at the corners cot - lips drawn together caught - lips prodruded I'm sure the people in sci.lang have technical terms for that stuff. Steve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa http://www.geocities.com/Athens/7734/stevesig.htm E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop ukhttp://www.englishforums.com/English/Pronunciation/2/kqcvz/Post.htm#914503Fri, 21 May 2004 06:00:50 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:914503irmaAs a native Spanish speaker I have a hard time to distinguish the difference between the vowels in * cut * cot * caught Are there any clues on how should I shape my mouth/lips/tongue/vocal chords/whatever to pronounce these vowels correctly? Hola Fernando, I am a native Spanish speaker, and I have this and some other pronunciation problems as well, unfortunately. I have improved my pronunciation a little, by listen to BBC words in the news. They are short paragraphs you can listen several times and try to repeat with the proper pronuntiation. BBC Learning English has as well new pronuntiation lessons. They are quite good. Espero que esto te ayude. Mucha suerte! Irma.http://www.englishforums.com/English/Pronunciation/kqcvz/post.htmFri, 21 May 2004 04:37:02 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:914469fernando gAs a native Spanish speaker I have a hard time to distinguish the difference between the vowels in * cut * cot * caught Are there any clues on how should I shape my mouth/lips/tongue/vocal chords/whatever to pronounce these vowels correctly? Thanks :) Fernandohttp://www.englishforums.com/English/AfterInvestigationTruthAboutRevealed/8/jmrjx/Post.htm#812072Sun, 18 Jan 2004 23:25:45 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:812072raymond s. wiseIt's not a matter of "how some British newspapers think 'macho'should be pronounced," but how the British actually pronounce it. (snip dictionary links) I think you are giving too much credit to we (us) Britishers. Either that or I have ... just don't come into it. We haven't got that far yet. It's still a question of hard or soft 'ch'. With your mention of "haitches," I have to conclude that you did misunderstand my point. I was speaking only of the difference between the American and the British pronunciations of the first vowel in "macho." It didn't even occur to me that there was some controversy concerning other sounds in the word. I have, in fact, heard British...http://www.englishforums.com/English/Flaccid/2/jkzqh/Post.htm#809997Sat, 17 Jan 2004 05:54:09 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:809997raymond s. wise"FLACK-sud," This I'm the wrong person to ask about such things. The subject of the pronunciation of vowels is a weak spot of mine. I rarely follow any of the threads where the various pronunciations of a given vowel in different dialects is discussed. And the last time I almost *did* get a headache over pronunciation was when I was trying to puzzle out what sound was intended for a particular symbol in a Webster's Third entry. At the time, it occurred to me that Richard Fontana might actually know something about the vowel in question, but I gave up on it. I have no opinion about the American use of a "short 'i'" instead of a schwa in words such as "penis." I can report that the OED, which...http://www.englishforums.com/English/Flaccid/2/jkzqh/Post.htm#803833Mon, 12 Jan 2004 18:06:00 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:803833raymond s. wiseTo be precise, Merriam-Webster's Collegiate shows /'fl&ks@d/,"FLACK-sud," as a secondary ... it is encountered less often. I use the /'fl&ks@d/ pronunciation. Phooey! Before posting, I had caught a couple of instances where I wrote /'fl&ks@d/ where I should have written /'fl&s@d/, but I didn't catch this one. It should be "I use the /'fl&s@d/ pronunciation." *The Collins English Dictionary,* a British dictionary at http://www.wordreference.com/english/definition.asp?en=flaccid gives both pronunciations, except that the vowel in the unstressedsyllable is the "i" of "hit." This interests me. So -@- for -i- in unstressed positions is "received...http://www.englishforums.com/English/CapOrCup/jcwhb/post.htm#764112Thu, 04 Dec 2003 15:35:42 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:764112jonathan jordanSo the basic question is: Is the Cambridge pronunciation of ... or ride a "BOOSS". Which **should** it be? Cap orCup? Why not choose the intermediate solution that (it seems to me) isoffered by prestige varieties of AmE, notably Postwar New York PrestigeStandard? Given what he wrote about Americans, I doubt he wants to sound like one. I hear PNYPS "bus"/"cup" as having a vowel that is to the back ofthat EstE (?) vowel you hear annoyed British speakers using when they say"Cahm on!" (which they stress on the first word, it seems) in Britishfilms and TV shows and such. Seems likely; after all the Estuary vowel is close to (a). I'd have just written "Cam on". OTOH, PNYPS...http://www.englishforums.com/English/NewPageSitePronunciationNewsgroup-ContributorsNames/31/wgqcv/Post.htm#732093Tue, 04 Nov 2003 22:30:40 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:732093jerry friedmanVery nice! Listening to it is like standing "on line" drinking a "regular coffee". I haven't yet had a chance to listen to Mr. ... just want to say that this is *very* good news. I certainly hear "marry" as different from the other two. I think the difference between "merry" and "Mary" is slight, with both being close to my "merry", but probably there is a difference. I hear something between a "slight" difference and very different. Other comments on the recording: I agree that "calm" and "com" are distinct, and I agree with the transcriptions with ... second) "long" and "coffee" is very noticeable, at least to this...http://www.englishforums.com/English/NewPageSitePronunciationNewsgroup-ContributorsNames/31/wgqcv/Post.htm#731926Tue, 04 Nov 2003 19:36:04 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:731926jonathan jordanYou say you're not MINMINM? To my ear, your three "Mary", "marry", and "merry" vowels all sound very different. I haven't yet had a chance to listen to Mr. Hamm's recording (and I look forward to doing so) but I just want to say that this is *very* good news. I certainly hear "marry" as different from the other two. I think the difference between "merry" and "Mary" is slight, with both being close to my "merry", but probably there is a difference. Other comments on the recording: I agree that "calm" and "com" are distinct, and I agree with the transcriptions with (A) and (a) respectively. The "com" sounds close to my...http://www.englishforums.com/English/NewPageSitePronunciationNewsgroup-ContributorsNames/18/wgqcv/Post.htm#718160Wed, 22 Oct 2003 22:22:59 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:718160michael hammWhat about "spa" and "starry"? (The question was addressed to me, I think, and asking what vowels I use.) In 'starry' I use /A/; I'll have to catch myself saying "spa" naturally some time and let you know. It seems like what you have is a pattern I haven't seen before: a merger of "short o" and "ah" ... of the pre-voiceless allophone of short o, making the split phonemic. Someone could probably get a paper out of that. Okay. I took but two half-year courses in linguistics, the 101 course (not actually numbered 101) and the first course in phonetics. Let me see if I can figure out what you wrote. :-) a merger of "short o" and "ah" then an allophonic...http://www.englishforums.com/English/NewPageSitePronunciationNewsgroup-ContributorsNames/15/wgqcv/Post.htm#715950Tue, 21 Oct 2003 03:59:42 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:715950aaron j. dinkinI believe that what Jerry is referring to is the ... this, but a recording by Mr. Hamm may prove enlightening. You can be skeptical, but it's the case: I (in general) have /A/ before a voiced stop (and in ) and /a/ before a voiceless one. That doesn't mean that /A/ and /a/ are different phonemes for you. Can you think of any pair of words, or possible words, that would be distinguished by having /A/ in one and /a/ in the other? Or words that would rhyme were it not for the difference between /A/ and /a/? (The latter criterion isn't sufficient(1), but it's often useful.) For instance, I have /A/ in "bother" but /a/ in "father". Would you have the same vowel in both? For a minimal pair, I have the same...http://www.englishforums.com/English/AhArAwOrAwAhAr/8/whnzz/Post.htm#712810Fri, 17 Oct 2003 15:27:54 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:712810woody wordpeckerThat is a definition of /A./: what /A./ is is a particular vowel phoneme. Which one? It's the ... an unambiguous definition; moreover, it's defined in terms of the things that phonemed ought to be defined in terms of. If it's a definition, it's a useless one, because it doesn't mean the same thing to everyone. I have no way of knowing what sounds are included in the phoneme you're calling /A./, so the definition tells me little about how words may be pronounced. If phonemes have any use at all in a discussion of pronunciation, it appears that that use will be restricted to a community of speakers who have the same phonemes. They can't possibly have much value in an international forum, unless each phoneme...http://www.englishforums.com/English/AhArAwOrAwAhAr/7/whnzz/Post.htm#712211Fri, 17 Oct 2003 00:11:54 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:712211woody wordpeckerIt's an elliptical definition. I read Ross's line as meaning "(the vowel contained in) cot, bother...". That's still meaningless. There is no vowel that is contained in every rendition of "cot". The vowels that may be contained in "cot" don't even belong, in general, to the same phoneme. They aren't in the same phoneme unless someone would perceive them as being the same sound. Until you make the statement more specific, "the vowel contained in 'cot'" can mean the vowel in "cot" in any variety of English spoken in the world. If you make it very specific, like "the vowel in 'cot' in the speech of Ross Howard", it still doesn't tell us...http://www.englishforums.com/English/NewPageSitePronunciationNewsgroup-ContributorsNames/5/wgqcv/Post.htm#704883Sat, 11 Oct 2003 19:11:42 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:704883woody wordpecker( . . . ) My ears can't detect any difference between the vowels of Bob's "call" and "Bob". I don't (yet) have formant-analysis software on my computer, so without knowing whether the vowels actually are objectively different, I can think of two explanations: In the file we're talking about, my octogenarian voice apparently acted up a bit during the pronunciation of "call". It caused the vowel to start quite highward and frontward, then glide to the (A) position where I would expect to find it. I've made a new recording. You can hear it at http://tinyurl.com/qkt0 . Tinyurlophobes can hear it at http://www.exw6sxq.com/sparky/aue related/speech examples/my name.mp3 . ` Formant analysis...http://www.englishforums.com/English/Xenophobia/2/wrqjv/Post.htm#673315Tue, 30 Sep 2003 11:56:03 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:673315jonathan jordanThe article in question, at http://www.bartleby.com/68/0/6600.html says, "There are four Standard pronunciations of xenophobia: ZEN-o-*FO*-bee-(y)uh, ZEEN-o-*FO*-bee-(y)uh, ZEN-uh-*FO*-bee-(y)uh, or ZEEN-uh-*FO*-bee-(y)uh. " I take that to be representing ** pronunciations: (1) ZEN-o-*FO*-bee-uh, (2) ZEN-o-*FO*-bee-yuh, (3)ZEEN-o-*FO*-bee-uh, (4) ZEEN-o-*FO*-bee-yuh, (5) ZEN-uh-*FO*-bee-uh, (6)ZEN-uh-*FO*-bee-yuh,(7) ZEEN-uh-*FO*-bee-uh, and (8) ZEEN-uh-*FO*-bee-yuh. Given that they actually say that it represents four, maybe they're just reflecting some uncertainty about whether the "-ia" ending is best thought of as /i @/ or /ij@/. Off the top of my head, I doubt the difference between /i @/ and /ij@/ is...http://www.englishforums.com/English/SubstituteForAsciiIpa/hxpqj/post.htm#658592Sat, 06 Sep 2003 14:20:01 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:658592aaron j. dinkinThe Chambers Dictionary (1993 edition) has a pronunciation symbol that they say corresponds to the vowels in "lean, keel, ... query". Is there anyone in the English speaking world who pronounces "here" and "lean" with even approximately the same vowel? My vowels in "here" and "lean" are phonetically approximately the same; and phonemically, they're exactly the same; that is to say, I think of them as the same vowel, and it is only with effort that I'm conscious of the difference between them. The vowels in my "hear" and "lean" are much more similar than those in my "mat" and "man". -Aaron J. Dinkin Dr. Whomhttp://www.englishforums.com/English/RichardFontanasPhonemicInventoryRead-Richard/2/hwchc/Post.htm#631492Thu, 07 Aug 2003 14:15:17 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:631492r fwrote: One: what's the difference between /R/ and /V"r/? "curd" /'kV"rd/ "curl" /'kRl/ It's similar to "feed" /'fid/ versus "feel" /'fI@l/, or "made" /'med/ versus "mail" /'mE@l/. /R/ occurs only before /l/ and has a very short schwa pronounced after it. Does Richard also make this sort of distinction between "curd" and "curl"? I don't detect any phonemic difference between the vowels of "curd" and "curl". I don't hear any strong phonetic difference either. I do have the sort of phonetic difference in feed/feel you describe as phonemic, but I don't regard it as phonemic for me. I...http://www.englishforums.com/English/Sauna/3/hdkwb/Post.htm#603043Mon, 21 Jul 2003 08:01:01 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:603043usenetOn Sun, 20 Jul 2003 20:37:08 +0100, "Jonathan Jordan" (Email Removed) said: All true, but whatever it is will probably be ... the vowelthey use in "saw", it's pretty clear and unambiguous. I don't see how you can say that seriously. To me, it's no better than saying most Americans pronounce "sauna" ... use in "saw", then most English speakers pronounce "sauna" with the vowel they use in "sauna". There's no anchor anywhere. "Saw" is a much more common word than "sauna", and hence a much better example word. The spellings and fairly consistently (there are of course exceptions, this being English spelling) represent what Prof J.C.Wells calls...http://www.englishforums.com/English/Sauna/2/hdkwb/Post.htm#602853Sun, 20 Jul 2003 22:56:17 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:602853usenetOn Sun, 20 Jul 2003 20:37:08 +0100, "Jonathan Jordan" (Email Removed) said: On Sun, 20 Jul 2003 15:44:54 +0300, sand (Email Removed) ... would be ('sO:n@), or maybe ('sA.n@), or maybe something else. All true, but whatever it is will probably be the way that they pronounce the word "sauna" in English, unless they use the Finnish pronunciation. The use of "aw" in trying to represent pronunciations is maybe the least effective of all such attempts. That depends on the purpose. If, as in this case, it is intended to indicate that most English speakers pronounce the word with the vowel they use in "saw", it's pretty clear and unambiguous. I don't see how you can say that seriously....