http://www.englishforums.com/search/pro.htm?q=tag%3aVowels+tag%3aPronunciation+tag%3aMistakesSearch results for 'tag:Vowels tag:Pronunciation tag:Mistakes' matching tags 'Vowels', 'Pronunciation', and 'Mistakes'en-USXMOD (Build: 3614.32638)http://www.englishforums.com/English/PronunciationShoulderL/5/hgrdx/Post.htm#614883Thu, 12 Aug 2004 04:30:38 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:614883mxsmanicAgreed, if such coursebooks claim to be representing American pronunciation. They are incorrect even when representing RP. Apparently length is indeed an inherent part of vowel phonemes in several important British dialects, where /i/ ~ (i:) is in fact longer than /I/ ~ (I). There may be some dialect somewhere that makes phonemic distinctions based on length, but RP does not, nor does GAE. There are other errors in transcriptions as well, such as the persistent tendency to note /E/ as /e/, which is very confusing to people who actually know the IPA (these are two entirely different vowels), and the tendency to note /I/ as /i/ and /i/ as /i:/, which is also incorrect and confusing. Don't English speakers ever study any other languages...http://www.englishforums.com/English/SpellingSoundsInEnglish/lwwwr/post.htm#962481Mon, 19 Jul 2004 01:21:32 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:962481raymond s. wiseI stopped reading Katherine Kerr when the same mistake was perpetuated in her 3rd or 4th book: she gave 'thin' ... of an o - I like to call it a smiley - so %u means a smiley over the u. That diacritic is called a "breve" in English. Begin quote: There are no silent letters; every word word is pronounced as it isspelled. Vowels are sounded ah, eh, ... be people for whom 'prince' and 'prints' are homophones, but I still think 'prints' would have been a better example. I agree. MWCD11 has for the pronunciation of "prince" "'prin(t)s". Something like "hats" would be better. I can't think of an imported German word where most English speakers would say the z as...http://www.englishforums.com/English/MethodsPoliteInstruction/17/lzqjl/Post.htm#948676Wed, 30 Jun 2004 02:53:57 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:948676maria conlonI know dialects and idiolects differ on this pernt, but in my dialect "gram" and "Graham" and "graham" and, I ... I'm talking from, what with the vowel shift and all. A Southern US speaker would probably have even more trouble. "Graham" (the first name) is "Gra-um" to me; "Graham" (the surname) is "Gra-m," that is, just a shade more than one syllable; "graham" (the cracker) is usually "gra-m" also. But none of that is written in cement. I can switch at a moment's notice, and I think that there's no *one and only official* pronunciation for any of the G/grahams. So if one of your names is Graham (no matter how it's spelled), just say...http://www.englishforums.com/English/OedHasAnotherThingComing/16/ldgkb/Post.htm#936435Sun, 13 Jun 2004 10:27:19 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:936435dr robin bignallI've followed this thread with some amazement at how 'thing' ... the 'thing' in 'another thing coming' supposed to represent? Retribution? This issue was pretty much beaten to a pulp in AUE a couple of years back. So have most other things. My own theory is that the confusion is related to the "k" that some speakers of English, both UK and Australian, use in place of the "g" in words like "nothing", "anything" and "something." Some people use 'ff' instead of 'th' in those dialects: nuffink, sumffink, anyffink, etc. They also often say 'skellington' for skeleton'. But if they were regular replacers of 'ng' with 'nk',...http://www.englishforums.com/English/WallahWallahBingBang/3/lbcnm/Post.htm#930140Sat, 05 Jun 2004 07:27:20 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:930140raymond s. wiseThis is a non-sequitur argument. That the French word "lingerie" is pronounced in English with the "ay" of "hay," How strange. I would have thought the main oddity about the English pronunciation of lingerie was the first vowel, ie most people seem to say 'lonzhery' or 'lonzheray'. I don't think that that is the main oddity because I have seen it repeated elsewhere, whereas I have not seen "ie" in any other word derived from French pronounced as the "ay" diphthong, /eI/. The one example I can think of in which French "in" /E~/ or /&~/, both have been used is the name of the main character in the animated program "Lupin the Third," in which the...http://www.englishforums.com/English/Herb/7/kqrrg/Post.htm#916312Sun, 23 May 2004 17:18:35 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:916312areffOddly, you seem to have failed to address the speech features of a number of former Chicago Residents Alienated Pentagonically (CRAP, preferably pronounced "creeap"). How do Donald Rumsfeld, Sy Hersh and Bob Woodward sound to you? I'm not sure I've heard Sy Hersh's voice yet. "Baaab" Woodward has a painfully strong Upper Midwestern Northern Cities Vowel Shifted accent (NTTAWWT), and in fact I find it somewhat difficult to take him seriously as a journalist for that reason (NTIPOTF). Woodward's accent seems to me more emblematically NCVS than specifically Chicagoan, for whatever reason (for example, I don't hear much if any of the tell-tale Pavlovian Salivariness that is the marker of true Chicago...http://www.englishforums.com/English/LongAOrShortAVowelSound/2/jqvlk/Post.htm#852613Thu, 26 Feb 2004 10:57:56 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:852613janetrepresentation learnt though guide I your Note to Janet: I'm not American - I'm from northern England (Sheffield). Dear Jonathan, Sorry about that. I suppose it's a mistake to suppose that everyone's American. Janet Australia, then, since probably you were over 14? I learned Pitman Shorthand in Australia. Janet Does this list match the experience of others outside the US, or is there just too much nonstandardization of the concept? I'm not sure whether the edition I learned Pitman Shorthand from was published in Australia or England. But Pitman Publishing has or had at one time companies or associated companies in Australia (Melbourne), London, Johannesburg, New York, Toronto, California and Nairobi. I have some old...http://www.englishforums.com/English/InterestingArticleAuesFirst/22/jldgm/Post.htm#809532Fri, 16 Jan 2004 21:21:08 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:809532evan kirshenbaumJones: Hmmm...maybe you people aren't dumb. Maybe you just never learned the vowel sounds in terms of "long" and "short". ... with the actual length of the vowels. It just means that each English vowel has, in general, two different sounds. You might notice that he's posting from the UK. Evidently the notion of "long" and "short" as the names for the contrast is pretty much limited to the US. (I don't know about Canada.) Phonetically, of course, the only place most of us in the US have a length contrast is in pairs like "cap" and "cab", where the only phonetic difference is that the vowel in the second is longer. For non-Americans, our canonical vowels are long A...http://www.englishforums.com/English/WhyAPeriodAfterMs/2/jhddl/Post.htm#787458Fri, 26 Dec 2003 21:51:04 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:787458raymond s. wise"Ms." may not be an abbreviation, but it must not ... is "nth" at least one computerized version of Scrabble accepts it. sh - don't tell everyone. I made a mistake in my previous message, as I realized after receiving a private e-mail from a member of this newsgroup. I should have written of an English word which has no *vowels.* (That's orthographic vowels, of course. In pronunciation, "nth" has the same vowel as the word "tenth.") Raymond S. Wise Minneapolis, Minnesota USA E-mail: mplsray @ yahoo . comhttp://www.englishforums.com/English/LongVowelBeforeLl/2/jvbmq/Post.htm#772697Thu, 11 Dec 2003 08:44:11 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:772697donna richouxThis is news to me. I've heard a strong "ko" ... and they have "k@". Kuh-LIN-ee-er, kuh-LATE. Almost klinear and klate. I'm puzzled. When you say "Merriam-Webster", what dictionary are you referring to? Both the tenth and eleventh editions of the Merriam-Webster Collegiate have five pronunciations for "collate". I'm glad to hear it, since, as I said, I was surprised by Joe's indication that the pronunciations I knew were strange. I was referring to the edition on-line at m-w.com, which is the 10th. I assume you mean you checked the print edition. I'm surprised they differ. (See below) One of them has the vowel that our grade-school teachers taught us to call "long o",...http://www.englishforums.com/English/SpelingRefohrm/18/jbzzm/Post.htm#771304Wed, 10 Dec 2003 05:29:43 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:771304john lawler"Have" has the lax vowel of "can" (be able), while "halve" has the tense vowel of "can" (= BrE tin). Sorry, Richard, I just don't get it. Not always the teacher's fault. Color to a blind man, or some such. One more good example of why usenet is the wrong venue for discussing phonetics. The British pronunciation is different in quality, and some Americans introduce a distinction in quantity ('halve' is longer than 'have'), although most Americans (like me) don't distinguish the two unless forced to, and then do so unreliably and inconsistently. -John Lawler http://www.umich.edu/~jlawler U Michigan Linguistics Dept "I have nothing to say, I am saying it, and that is...http://www.englishforums.com/English/NewPageSitePronunciationNewsgroup-ContributorsNames/31/wgqcv/Post.htm#731911Tue, 04 Nov 2003 19:28:07 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:731911michael hammYou say you're not MINMINM? To my ear, your three "Mary", "marry", and "merry" vowels all sound very different. To mine, my "Mary" and my "marry" sound alike. how could a MINMINM person not realize he's MINMINM? Well, I'm not well trained in listening (or in phonetics in general). Michael Hamm Since mid-September of 2003, AM, Math, Wash. U. St. Louis I've been erasing too much UBE. (Email Removed) Of a reply, then, if you have been cheated, http://math.wustl.edu/~msh210/ Likely your mail's by mistake been deleted.http://www.englishforums.com/English/NewPageSitePronunciationNewsgroup-ContributorsNames/18/wgqcv/Post.htm#718160Wed, 22 Oct 2003 22:22:59 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:718160michael hammWhat about "spa" and "starry"? (The question was addressed to me, I think, and asking what vowels I use.) In 'starry' I use /A/; I'll have to catch myself saying "spa" naturally some time and let you know. It seems like what you have is a pattern I haven't seen before: a merger of "short o" and "ah" ... of the pre-voiceless allophone of short o, making the split phonemic. Someone could probably get a paper out of that. Okay. I took but two half-year courses in linguistics, the 101 course (not actually numbered 101) and the first course in phonetics. Let me see if I can figure out what you wrote. :-) a merger of "short o" and "ah" then an allophonic...http://www.englishforums.com/English/EmbeddedMispronunciations/5/whxdk/Post.htm#707294Mon, 13 Oct 2003 18:48:07 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:707294mcMC'S LAW: "Post a question in aue and sooner or ... inference that was never implied, or all of the above." Not angry. But the premise of the question was an error. QED! You have assumed that "everyone" is keyed into American popular culture. We're not. Thank &deity; I'm sure my life would be a lot richer for not being exposed to American popular culture, too. But I fear I'll be down here with the plebs wallowing in it for a while longer before I come to my senses. I now know, having caught the odd snippet in the past few years (Oprah is shown on cable here or used to be), how Oprah pronounces her name. I still pronounce it "oppra" in English. Oh. Excellent policy. Good for you. When she...http://www.englishforums.com/English/EmbeddedMispronunciations/5/whxdk/Post.htm#707280Mon, 13 Oct 2003 18:37:51 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:707280simon r. hughesThus spake MC: Thus spake Mike Barnes: I was going to reply that ... we care a jot about her and her strange name. MC'S LAW: "Post a question in aue and sooner or later someone will either correct you, denounce the premise of ... or imagined error you have made, react angrily to some inference that was never implied, or all of the above." Not angry. But the premise of the question was an error. You have assumed that "everyone" is keyed into American popular culture. We're not. Thank &deity;. I now know, having caught the odd snippet in the past few years (Oprah is shown on cable here or used to be), how Oprah pronounces her name. I still pronounce it "oppra" in English. When she corrects me, I might...http://www.englishforums.com/English/Xenophobia/5/wrqjv/Post.htm#702226Thu, 09 Oct 2003 16:31:51 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:702226jonathan jordanDo you know roughly when this sound change is supposed to have happened? Not off the top of my head, but my guess is early post-Shakespeare. Perhaps earlier than that. The nature of ... /rOl/, became /rOUl/ - which is essentially the same as the (roUl) which it is to this day in manydialects. Thanks. The shift from /A./ to /o/ that I have before ... that have /O/ in RP but /A./ in northern England) "Salt"? That's really interesting. The sound change I mentionedabove turned "salt" into /sAUlt/, and it was /AU/ that regularly became/O/, so by that sound change, "salt" should have the same vowel as "law"."Law" doesn't have /A./ in northern England, does it? No. It might have (A.:)...http://www.englishforums.com/English/LatinosOrHispanics/9/hpndn/Post.htm#664606Thu, 18 Sep 2003 07:12:08 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:664606raymond s. wiseMWCD10 gives three pronunciations for "want": /wOnt/, also /wAnt/, /w@nt/ ... "also" means "the ones that follow are significantly less common".) I say "want" as /wAnt/; I'm surprised to learn that it is significantly less common than /wOnt/. I also say ... rather than the "cot" vowel /A/. /woUnt/ for "wont" seems like it should be regarded as an error, to me. For what it is worth, the *Cambridge Advanced Learner's Dictionary* at http://dictionary.cambridge.org/define.asp?dict=CALD&key=91129&desc=wont&ph=on or http://tinyurl.com/ns4w gives for the word "wont" only /w@Unt/ for the British pronunciation and /woUnt/ for the American pronunciation....http://www.englishforums.com/English/LatinosOrHispanics/8/hpndn/Post.htm#664328Wed, 17 Sep 2003 21:07:14 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:664328jonathan jordanMWCD10 gives three pronunciations for "want": /wOnt/, also /wAnt/, /w@nt/ ... "also" means "the ones that follow are significantly less common".) I say "want" as /wAnt/; I'm surprised to learn that it is significantly less common than /wOnt/. I also say ... rather than the "cot" vowel /A/. /woUnt/ for "wont" seems like it should be regarded as an error, to me. According to Chambers "wont" is "historically /wVnt/, commonly /woUnt/" (my interpretation of their pronunciation symbols). But I think it's also commonly /wA.nt/. Former UK Prime Minister John Major supposedly pronounced "want" as /wVnt/, though I don't remember ever noticing...http://www.englishforums.com/English/LatinosOrHispanics/8/hpndn/Post.htm#664274Wed, 17 Sep 2003 19:38:45 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:664274mickwickMWCD10 gives three pronunciations for "want": /wOnt/, also /wAnt/, /w@nt/ ... "also" means "the ones that follow are significantly less common".) I say "want" as /wAnt/; I'm surprised to learn that it is significantly less common than /wOnt/. I also say ... rather than the "cot" vowel /A/. /woUnt/ for "wont" seems like it should be regarded as an error, to me. I think /woUnt/ is the most common British pronunciation. I'm /woUnt/, anyway. (I'm /w@nt/ for 'want', more or less.) Mickwick