Search results for 'tag:Whom tag:British English' matching tags 'Whom' and 'British English'

Re: What makes English so difficult to learn?

Anonymous — Wed, 13 Feb 2008 18:34:01 GMT

Hello, another English teacher here. I have been teaching English in China for about 2 and a half years now and also speak fluent French, decent Spanish and am learning Chinese (not as hard as you may think once you get the hang of those tones, easy grammar). Now I'll start off by saying that English seems to be an incredibly easy language to communicate with (and by this I mean to give the general idea of what you're trying to say). However, if you want to learn English like a native speaker then it's a completely different story. The pronunciation CAN be difficult to learn depending on your native language and also the age you attempt to learn it at. Training your tongue and mouth to move the same way a native speaker does can be difficult to do, especially if you're like many of my students who got their start at an older age or didn't have good teachers. I've also noticed that my younger students are able to mimic my speech much easier than the older ones speaking, both of whom are studying at the same level. I started learning French when I was 4 years old (Quebec French, I'm Canadian) and because of the quality of my teachers and my young age I was able to become quite good with my pronunciation. With my Chinese because I'm learning from scratch from native speakers my pronunciation is also decent (notice I said decent, not great, although when speaking Chinese I'm always understood). Native language has a lot to do with it too as the sounds you use in one language may be very different for another. I've taught in both the north and south of China and find that the people all have the same problems. Chinese people have problems with s (they often pronounce it as a sh sound) and with closing their mouth for the letter m ("sometimes" is a nightmare for them and they often say it like "suntine"). L and R can also be troublesome. One can't forget sentence stress as well as well as linking words together to make it go smoothly.

The vocabulary can also be a pain. Someone here mentioned 150,000 words in the English language but the number is actually much higher. The Oxford English Dictionary (2nd edition) contains over 600,000 definitions. Webster's Third New International Dictionary, Unabridged contains 475,000 main headwords and it is believed the language grows by 25,000 words a year. Don't believe me, check Wikipedia. There's also the difference in spelling and vocabulary between the different forms of English. British English and American English use different words and the words that are the same can be spelled differently. American English and Canadian English essentially share the same vocabulary to a large degree but the spelling of Canadian English in many ways is closer to British English. British English is pretty much the English form most Asian and European countries will learn but American pop culture will also have an influence, not to mention the American economy and it's impact. This can all be very confusing. To the person saying they are tired of using "well" as in "well, then..." there are many substitutes you could use.

The grammar is also a nuisance. It's not the hardest of things but certainly isn't the easiest. Sure French has a gender attached to all of it's nouns (which I hated when learning it), but English still has more exceptions to it's rules that need to me memorized. So many even native speakers have trouble with it. A language like Chinese that may seem hard to speak actually has very simple grammar. For example if you wanted to ask someone where they are you would say "ni zai na li" or simply "ni zai nar" (you where?). To ask a question in Chinese you merely ad "ma" to the end of a statement. "Ta hui shuo zhongwen" is "he/she speaks Chinese whereas "ta hui shuo zhongwen ma" is "does he/she speak Chinese?". Also in Chinese as there are no forms of he or she.

It's impossible to say which language is easy and which is hard when compared to each other because there are so many things that need to be taken into consideration. Let's just say that English has it's easy parts and it's ridiculously difficult parts as well. Speaking at a native speaker level can be done and I know people who have done this, but it takes a lot of hard work, good instruction, and a good learning atmosphere. I hope all that made sense, I stumbled onto this site a 2 in the morning and am quite tired.

Re: Why is "Can you show me the way how you did it?" incorrect?

Tanit — Sun, 21 Oct 2007 20:42:55 GMT

Yoong Liat wrote:
Hi Tanit

In Singapore, students are taught to use 'whom'. For example, "The man whom you spoke to this morning is my father." Using 'who' would be considered wrong. In an exam, it is advisable to use 'whom'. ( Singaporeans are using British English.)

The above is related to the grammar section of the English Language Paper. As for the essays, I do not know how the examiners will mark usage relating to 'who' and 'whom'. However, I believe it is safer for our students to opt for formal usage.

Hi Yoong Liat,

In Italy, students are taught to use "whom" as well, especially in schools, where hardly any native speaker teaches English (or French, or any foreign language).
I am sure you've got good reasons to say "I believe it is safer for our students to opt for formal usage".
I only wanted to point out that there are other exams (international examinations, not Italian ones) where students are required to master both formal and informal structures. What's more, candidates would lose marks if they mixed up formal with informal language, or if they chose the wrong register (for instance, by writing a formal letter to a close friend).

Best.

Re: Why is "Can you show me the way how you did it?" incorrect?

Yoong Liat — Sun, 21 Oct 2007 15:42:24 GMT

Hi Tanit

In Singapore, students are taught to use 'whom'. For example, "The man whom you spoke to this morning is my father." Using 'who' would be considered wrong. In an exam, it is advisable to use 'whom'. ( Singaporeans are using British English.)

The above is related to the grammar section of the English Language Paper. As for the essays, I do not know how the examiners will mark usage relating to 'who' and 'whom'. However, I believe it is safer for our students to opt for formal usage.

Re: Why is "Can you show me the way how you did it?" incorrect?

Tanit — Sun, 21 Oct 2007 13:57:17 GMT

Yoong Liat wrote:

In Singapore, students are taught to use 'whom'. For example, "The man whom you spoke to this morning is my father." Using 'who' would be considered wrong. In an exam, it is advisable to use 'whom'. ( Singaporeans are using British English.)

To me, generalisation can be dangerous. In Cambridge ESOL exams (such as FCE, CAE, CPE ... British exams!) students are required to write two compositions. One of them can be an informal letter (for instance, to a friend or to a relative). In these compositions, something like "The man whom you spoke to this morning is my father" would be considered inappropriate in terms of register and consistency, while something like "The man who you spoke to this morning is my father" would be considered inappropriate in other contexts (for instance, formal letters or reports).
So, I'd say it depends on your target reader, not on BrE or on exams.

Re: Why is "Can you show me the way how you did it?" incorrect?

Yoong Liat — Sun, 21 Oct 2007 13:27:52 GMT

Hi Hoa Thai

I have a nephew who took a college English test and he lost a mark for choosing who over whom. He got accepted in the school any way, but I should advise him to show his English teacher this thread.

In Singapore, students are taught to use 'whom'. For example, "The man whom you spoke to this morning is my father." Using 'who' would be considered wrong. In an exam, it is advisable to use 'whom'. ( Singaporeans are using British English.)

Re: British versus american expressions

Anonymous — Mon, 09 Jul 2007 22:28:59 GMT

"English as it is spoken in England" is only "standard" in Great Britain, friend, and even there, the use of the term "standard" to apply to the multitude of ways in which English is spoken in England is an oversimplification.

To speak of some universal standard of English is misguided at best, but elitist, prescriptivist, and insulting are other adjectives I'd use to describe such a practice. ALL English is regional, including so-called standard British English, so I would defend the need to specify the region whenever trying to speak of differences between regional Englishes (yes, I said "Englishes").

I agree with you on one point: the term "British English" is most likely an American invention, but like most invented terms, it was born of necessity. For better or for worse, the American version of English (of which there are actually many) has gained prestige in the world. Naturally, this is not because it is somehow superior to the way English is spoken in the UK, but because of the relatively greater economic and political weight of the U.S. Thus, as an English teacher in the US, I often discuss differences in usage with my students, most of whom studied British English growing up but are now in the U.S. pursuing graduate degrees. In the course of such discussions, it is necessary to have a convenient term for "the English spoken in the UK as opposed to that spoken in the US."

Language is a democratic affair, so whether you like it or not, I and most of the English-speaking world will continue to use the term you disparage.

(Note: I know this is a rather late reply, but I just ran across this when doing some research for a lesson. I hope you enjoyed reading it all the same.)

Re: correct or not ?? Help me pls!

Pioussoul — Wed, 14 Feb 2007 03:40:00 GMT

Nona The Brit wrote:
Are you in Australia OP? Might be best not to use mad there. In American English it means angry but in British English it means insane.

Whom do you refer to by OP? If me, I'm PS, and I'm from Taiwan.

Re: Worrying too much about the difference.

milky — Thu, 11 Jan 2007 15:25:28 GMT

< In British English, at least, it is considered one of the main pointers towards 'uneducated/lower-lower class'. >

Really? By whom? And aren't you just inventing that lower-lower class label?

Re: Whose property?

Tam Sadek — Mon, 30 Oct 2006 21:04:45 GMT

As we're talking 'Linguistic Imperialism', I thought this might be relevant to the discussion... It's an excerpt from something I wrote a few years ago regarding the British Council and its role in ELT...

âA knowledge of English gives rise in its turn to a desire to read English books, talk to British people, and learn about British life or some aspect of itâ¦ As a resultâ¦ the British Council representative will receive many requests from peopleâ¦ who wish to visit the United Kingdom, usually to study some subject. From such applications are chosen the distinguished visitorsâ¦ whom it is considered worth while to assist.â (Drogheda report summary as quoted in Donaldson, 1984, pp181-82)

The British government realised that if English language teaching overseas was to expand then special steps would have to be taken. However, there was a problem for the British Council in that it had little or no expertise in teaching English as a Foreign Language (EFL) in multilingual societies. This factor was to have major consequences for the way English Language Teaching (ELT) was to develop as both the Colonial Office and the Ministry of Education rejected the Councilâs claims to educational expertise in this area.

Therefore in March 1956 An âOfficial Committee on the Teaching of English Overseasâ, (TEO) which consisted of representatives from the Foreign Office, Scottish Office, Commonwealth Relations Office, Colonial Office, the Board of Trade, the Ministry of Education, the University Grants Committee and the British Council, reported to the Cabinet. The committeeâs report was entitled âThe Opportunityâ and it stated that:

âOpportunities unquestionably exist for increasing the use of English as a second language in most parts of the non-English speaking worldâ¦ Within a generation from now English could be a world language â that is to say a universal second language in those countries in which it is not already the native or primary tongueâ¦ it is important that its expansion should take place mainly under Commonwealth and United States auspicesâ (as quoted in Phillipson, 1994, p149)

It may appear somewhat surprising that the United States is included as an ally in the battle for English domination; however, during the mid-fifties the threats to British English were perceived as alternative languages such as Arabic, Chinese and Hindi rather than American English. Although the report does note the threat from American cultural imperialism to traditional British export markets the report notes that âthere was a preference overseas for the Queenâs English as opposed to American Englishâ (Donaldson, 1984, p203) and the report goes on to state that:

âBritain has nothing to lose and much to gain by the closest possible collaboration with the United States.â (As quoted in Phillipson, 1994, p150)

This reflected the fact that American ELT and linguistics were far more developed than in Britain. This was due to Americaâs experience in Teaching English as a Second Language (TESL) to immigrants. Thus, the British Council and the State Department (the USAâs Foreign Office governmental equivalent) had already started co-ordinating strategy together and had even issued identical memos to their overseas offices endorsing co-operation between Britons and Americans in this field.

This report also marked a change in the policy of the British Council from that of âculturalâ to âeducationalâ affairs and from âdevelopedâ to âdevelopingâ countries (Pennycook, 1994, p148).

Pennycook further suggests that: âFor Britain, it became especially useful to have a ânon-governmentalâ agency for continued cultural and political influence in the face of the demise of the colonial education service.â (Pennycook, 1994, p148)

There's more, but I think that's more than enough for now...

Re: Beyond AmEng and BrEng.

milky — Mon, 16 Oct 2006 08:32:07 GMT

To whom is "whom" useful in contemporay use?

"Many Sri Lankans still use words such as frock (to scold) and the question form 'to whom' which are not familiar to modern British English speakers."

I guess if that's true, prescriptivist could say that the speakers of Sri Lankan English (SLE) sound more educated that many BrEng speakers.