Search results for 'tag:Word order tag:Tenses' matching tags 'Word order' and 'Tenses'

Looking for some tips and/or curriculum suggestions

mikesusangray — Fri, 15 Aug 2008 21:50:11 GMT

Hi all!

I've been giving English conversation lessons to a theology professor for about a year now. He's getting on in the years - a couple years from retirement - and his primary goal has been just to get his spoken English going a little stronger. His mother tongue is French but he's been teaching at a German language university for many years.

I'd like to add some more specific inputs to our lessons but I can't seem to find the right material. His passive skills are excellent - he reads widely and with perfect comprehension in his field - and he can communicate quite understandably. He is a linguistics specialist and can grasp any concept about the language immediately. I brought along Cambridge Advanced Grammar in Use and he could plow through a chapter in five minutes with perfect conceptual comprehension.

However, he also continues to make very simple errors - for example, he has trouble choosing between present simple and continuous or often uses the present tense for past events. Sentence order tends to get wander hither and yon while definite and indefinite articles come and go with the tide. (Prepositions are a problem too, but I won't beat him to hard there - prepositions are difficult in any new language.) In many cases his mistakes are typical of French or German speech patterns.

One other limitation is that he enjoys the weekly lessons (a good hour), but doesn't have much time to study in between.

Right now we spend about 15 minutes reading a chapter from Advanced Grammar in Use and about 45 minutes talking about just about anything under the sun, while I take notes and show him problems under the categories Pronunciation/Articles & Prespositions/Word Order/Other Grammar/Vocabulary/Idioms. However, I don't think the work book is a good choice - particularly since he doesn't do the homework - and it seems like he isn't making very good progress with his typical problem patterns - though he greets them like old friends when I point them out.

Any tips here?

Re: What makes English so difficult to learn?

Anonymous — Wed, 12 Mar 2008 21:30:34 GMT

As a native English speaker (well perhaps not entirely native, I was born in Russia and immigrated to the U.S. at the tender age of 7) I would have to say that apart from the obviously difficult aspects of the English language such as tenses, an unorthodox phonetic system employed in the language and infuriating exceptions for just about every single rule, the two most puzzling features are the Verb+Participle+Preposition combinations and the sheer vastness of the vocabulary. Observe the former...

come+up+with

come+down+with

come+foward+with

come+out+for

come+down+to

Five different constructions which would be clear as day to any native speaker, are nevertheless mind-boggling to someone who is learning the language. Notice how they all start with "come", and then imagine that sort of illogical word-scrambling applied to every verb. Daunting, isn't it? Don't know how to break it to you folks, but I haven't even scratched the surface.

Now as to the latter, I am more than happy to have dictionary.com present proof of this phenomenon in my stead. Let's take a look at the word "jump". I mean, how many possible synonyms could there be for this word? Well, one simple search can help us find out. Here's the link:

http://thesaurus.reference.com/browse/jump

40 entries for the first definition alone. FORTY. Forty different ways to say jump. But when you break it down, do all 40 words have the same meaning? Of course not! Nosedive means to jump into something headfirst, as in a pool of water or (if you're very unfortunate) onto a hardwood floor. To spring is to jump up energetically, with an almost almighty "lurch" (another word for jump right there :P) whereas to "bob" means to make jumping motions without every actually taking your feet off the ground. The list goes on and on. No other language I'm familiar with has such variety when it comes to synonyms, be it for seemingly uncomplicated actions or deep philosophical concepts.

Although English is my native language, I am also a nearly native speaker of Russian (I give credit to my parents for preserving the language of the "motherland" and passing it on to me) and fluent in German. I find Russian to be an incredibly expressive language with just as many (if not more) nuances as English, and its ability to convey feelings of dislike, anger or downright hateful fervor (i.e. swearing) is, in my experience, unmatched. German is an incredibly logical language, and once grammar constructs are mastered, relatively straightforward in its application. Mastering German grammar is a challenge however, and word order is an utter nuisance in some situations.

Just my two cents.

Re: Please check these sentences (future forms problems)

Doll — Wed, 27 Feb 2008 21:20:08 GMT

My take:

Anonymous

1. A:IÂ´m thankful for your help. I hope you will be teaching/ you are going to teach/ you will him also the next year. ---  All of them seem possible to me.

    B:IÂ´m afraid I wonÂ´t be teaching him/ IÂ´m not going to teach him, because I teach 5-graders and he will be/ is going to be a 6-grader. --- To me, future tense will be more proper because there is not a planned situation here. Everything is already known.

2. A: IÂ´d like to know what IÂ´ll be doing next year at this time.

    B: I hope that you will be working/ will work in my company. --Both of them are possible.

And a word order question - By then, I will have it done/ will have done it. -- In the first sentence, someone does it for you but in the second sentence you do it.

Re: sell out vs sell out of

Yankee — Fri, 22 Feb 2008 12:49:43 GMT

Hi Hoa Thai

There were a number of details that I considered in my last post. These included the following:

- Sold out used strictly as a verb vs sold out used like an adjective
- Verb tense
- Using sold vs sold out (particularly in combination with the word 'all')
- Word order (i.e. Does the sentence begin with that which was sold, or does it begin with the person who did the selling?)
- If the word 'all' was used, how exactly? (i.e. as a noun? pronoun? adjective? adverb?)

To me, there is more that needs to be considered than just the question of whether 'all' or 'all of' is better or more typical.

She then commented that 'sell out all our stocks of T-shirts' wasevent more awkward. But for this example, she made a slightchange in the sentence by adding 'of' - 'sell out all ofour stocks of T-shirts', then said that one should not to use both 'out'and 'all of' together because of redundancy. (NOTE: Right there, I completelymissed the connection. Why did she add the preposition âofâ then went on aboutredundancy?)

There are a couple of problems in that quote:

- Neither you nor I used the word 'stocks' (i.e. plural)
- You have ignored the beginning of the sentence, but I didn't.
Though I did indeed prefer 'all of' in the phrase "all of our stock of T-shirts", the focus of my comment about the sentence as a whole. I was not focused on whether 'all' or 'all of' was better. My comment focused on whether 'all' (or 'all of') should be used at all in combination with the way 'sold out' was used.

Re: Could anyone help me look throught this short article.

Fandorin — Thu, 20 Dec 2007 21:02:47 GMT

Hi there. I think that your first publication is very very good. Where are you from? Where do you want to publish it? But some things seems suspicious, i meant using tenses and grammatical constructions.

Do You know what? - use do is necessary, but in informal way of writing skipping is possible

It's not an easy decision at all. In fact, it was the biggest decision I've ever made. But, it is also the best decision too - using word decision many times isn't good idea and makes your level down.

I've never regretED

barely

speaking family who neither know you nor is a relative or yours - Simply, on my own say: speaking family who neither know you nor your family. =)

and neither do they understand most of what you say - construction contradict word order in sentence. Simply to say,if you want to use such construction: There is no way they can understand me.

Also, I got to do things I'll never have a chance to do like made my own schedule, performing a show on a stage, and going to the Prom(the biggest high school dance) - sequences of tenses. I did such things which I never should do like made ....

world fulled - is fulled

truely -truly

open my world-view - my advice - use "open my mind" ))) and use made instead of make (sequnce of tenses_

WHAT YOU ARE WAITING FOR!, - what are you waiting for?

In the end, I hope that this advices should help you in hard work of being good in English.. Sincerely your's =)

Re: question formula

Cool Breeze — Fri, 23 Nov 2007 09:21:39 GMT

Hi Nader

I'm not quite sure I understand what you mean. Has he talking? is wrong. You could say: Has he been talking?

If you are asking whether a have or has question can always be formed by changing the word order, the answer is no. It is safer to use do in the present tense:

Does he have money?
Especially in BrE it is possible to say: Has he [got] money? Without the got, it's not very common, though.

When have means 'eat', 'drink', 'must' etc., do must be used in questions:
Did he have an early breakfast today?
Do you have to talk about it all the time?

When have, has and had are perfect and past perfect auxiliaries, do is never used:
Have you seen him today?
Has he said anything so far?
Had he been there before?

Have you been reading all day?

CB

Re: Tense problem.

Cool Breeze — Fri, 05 Oct 2007 09:17:02 GMT

Yankee wrote:

I agree with Goodman but would like to add that this word order would also be very common:

I was wondering what the difference between a planet and a star was / is.

Hi all

Strictly speaking, this is the only grammatically correct sentence but I accept all the others as well because they are so common.
I was wondering is the main clause and therefore what the difference between a planet and a star is is a subordinate clause, in this context commonly called an indirect question even though no one may be asking a question directly or indirectly. The point in clauses like this is: the finite verb comes after the subject and everything that goes with it.

It's easier to get the word order right if the subordinate clause is very short:
I was wondering what it is.
Not: I was wondering what is it.

Another example with or without do:
I was wondering what he said.
Not: I was wondering what did he say.

CB

Re: Tense problem.

Yankee — Fri, 05 Oct 2007 06:02:57 GMT

Hi Hazma

I agree with Goodman but would like to add that this word order would also be very common:

I was wondering what the difference between a planet and a star was / is.

Re: Proficiency alongside "poverty".

Cool Breeze — Sun, 22 Jul 2007 23:02:24 GMT

Hi Forbes

Thank you for your long reply. I do appreciate it. I would just like to say that I my opinion is based on the knowledge I have of the Germanic and Romance languages and it is of course very subjective. I fully understand that not everyone agrees with me and what I consider easy may be difficult for some others as I have already said. However, I have given my honest opinion and I don't think you or anybody else would want me to lie on this forum? I'll add some comments.

I thought that might be what you were getting at.

I think it is a mistake to equate complexity solely with the degree of inflectional morphology of a language. I agree. I was talking about morphology only. To my mind I made no mistake. I do know what is difficult about English.

I have never studied Finnish, but I would be willing to bet that at least one of the following is true:

1. that a language with at least 30 cases has a corresponding lack of prepositions

There are only about 15 cases in Finnish - I don't actually remember the exact number and didn't bother to check, but we always
have a different form for the plural and that explains the 30. It is true that Finnish has fewer prepositions than English. In my opinion the number of changes made to words and the number of inflections cause far more difficulties for nonnative learners than the number of English prepositions, though..

2. that word order is fairly free and is used to express different emphases Correct.

3. that the inflectional morphology, though complex, is regular Correct again. Someone has said that there are ten rules in English grammar and 10,000 exceptions and 10,000 rules in Finnish grammar and ten exceptions. That's not quite true, though.

4. that it is perhaps not quite so difficult to learn once you begin to get the hang of it That is a matter of opinion and dispute. Quite a few nonnatives have said it is very difficult. They say it is hopeless to try and master the grammar from books. There may or may not be some truth in this. The number of "rules" must seem endless to some and people say it's a better idea not to worry too much about all the inflections and changes in the middle of the words but just go where people talk and learn the grammatical complexities by ear.

I have to say that I have met one or two Finns and they do seem to relish the idea that Finnish is a "difficult" language. I have also met some "Swedish Finnish" (I am not sure what the correct term is) and they all tell me that they are bilingual in Swedish and Finnish. They will of course have been helped in acquiring Finnish because either they live in a bilingual community or started to learn the language at an early age (I am not sure how it works) so they would not have been prejudiced by any concept of "difficulty". I expect that your idea that Finnish is difficult is confirmed by the fact that you do not know many foreigners living in Finland who have mastered it. This will be because:

1. It is more difficult to learn any language when you are an adult That is true about all languages.

2. Someone who is working full time will not be able to devote more than an hour or two a week to learning the language That is true about all languages.

3. Everyone will find it more convenient to speak to foreigners in English and there is therefore little incentive for them to learn Finnish There is a lot of truth in this. However, there are lots of people who have come to Finland for good and want to learn the language.

4. You keep harping on about how difficult the language is and put them off! I have spoken to Brits in Finland who say the opposite. They say they get encouraged in their efforts to speak Finnish. I don't think we are any better or worse than other people in this respect.

(I live in Spain and all the above applies to expats.)

You think that English is "simple". I venture to suggest that this is because you started to learn it at an early age and were introduced to it gradually so that you did not perceive its difficulties; you acquired your mastery over a long period. Also, I suspect that Finns are "subjected" to English in a way that the English are not subjected to foreign languages. A lot can be learned without realising it.

No. I have perceived its difficulties all right. They are the spelling and the idioms and the exceptions, for me anyway. The grammar, as I understand it, and structure are the easiest of the languages I am familiar with. Mind you, I don't pretend to be perfect in English. Actually, I don't think I deserve the icon, or whatever is the right word, that says I have a good grasp of the language. I would say I have a good grasp of the grammar but my vocabulary isn't at all on a par with native speakers. My knowledge of idioms and colloquialisms could also be much better.

Consider the following:

There is no single way of negating verbs in English. I do not eat, but I must not. I do not have any eggs, but I have not got any eggs.

There is no single way of forming questions. Do you come here a lot? but Can I go out?

True. And a third way: Who came? What happened?

It is not always easy to know when to use the continuous form of the verb. Try and explain why you can say Are you having cakes for tea? but cannot go into a shop and say Are you having cakes?

The meaning of prepositional verbs is not always transparent. John has got it in for me.

English is a highly analytic language and meaning is often derived from context:

A. You keep complaining. Have you got it in for me?

B. I asked you to bring in the shopping. Have you got it in for me?

These are just a tiny example of the complexities of English and they have nothing to do with inflectional morphology.

I am familiar with these things and I admit I make mistakes using expressions and tenses. However, I was referring to the fact that English words have only a handful of forms and the fewer inflections there are the easier it is to learn them. Using them correctly is indeed another thing, I agree with you there. Other languages have their "difficulties" too. I admit that English is difficult, at least for me, in this respect. No language is easy in every respect, or if there is one, then it is impossible to express nuances in that language.

As I said in my previous post, what is easy for some may be difficult for others. My views are based solely on my experience and I certainly don't expect everybody to agree with me.

Cheers

Re: If only you knew how much I loved you

CalifJim — Thu, 05 Apr 2007 04:43:24 GMT

Eeuw! Melted brains are so unsightly!

You said that "loved" can refer to the present. Can it also refer to the past

Yes. There is always an end to the backshift process -- the point where you run out of tenses that refer to an even more distant point in time! In this case I wouldn't feel comfortable going even as far as the past perfect. If only you knew how much I had loved you is just a bit quirky, I think. With the main clause in the past perfect, it sounds all right to me, though here the subordinate clause is not backshifted any more than in your original example.

If only you had known how much I loved you.

CJ

Note: The word order for this expression with "know" is more likely to be If you only knew, at least where I live, at least used alone, as follows.

-- You seem tired. Did you have a rough night?
-- If you only knew.

CJ