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hi everyoen

well Elena, really i don't know if there is a phrase from alquran does say the punishment of the Apostates. However, i guess you know that Islam has two origins; Quran and Hadith . and you know that Quran talks about everything in general, and Hadith give the details. and as the Muslims belief ; Hadith is the saying of the prophet Mohammed ( peace be upon him) and as they belief too; every single word that comes from mohammed is from the god ( Mohammed was telling the things that God wants ) and this fact says in the Quran and because i can't speak English so good i can't translate the phrase from the Quran to prove that fact. As a result, as this punishment said by Mohammed, it said by God and that is way Muslim follow it .

thanx all
Thank you very much, Elena!

Is it analogous to the relationship between the 4 gospels in the NT and the writings of Paul?

MrP
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Hi Alasiri

Alasiri wrote: Quran talks about everything in general, and Hadith give the details.

Quran gives details too --I have read them, about inheritance laws, or steps to be divorced, or about orphans, ettiquete, social issues, finalcial issues, war, prisoners of war, ...etc. If someone wants the verses, let me know,

but I undesrtand what you mean, that hadits are to be followed too, unless thay contradict the quran, in this case, the quran supersedes the hadith in question, does it?

Alasari wrote: ...As a result, as this punishment said by Mohammed, it said by God and that is way Muslim follow it .

not every muslim follows it, some schools of thought yes but others disagree, this link gives summary about this, read it if you feel like http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/south_asia/4850080.stm
Welcome, MrPedantic!

Again from my readings, I'd say the couple Quran - Hadiths are like Bible - Tradition, and the couple Quran alone muslims (they don't follow hadiths) and the traditional muslims that follow quran + hadiths are like the Protestant Church that follow just the Bible and Catholic Church that follow Bible + Tradition.

What do you think?
MrPedanticThank you very much, Elena!

Is it analogous to the relationship between the 4 gospels in the NT and the writings of Paul?

MrP
Yes, I see; so the hadiths would be a little like the writings of Jerome, Augustine, Clement, etc., or perhaps of Aquinas.

Thank you, Elena!

MrP

(This is an area in which my ignorance is fathomless. So my apologies to any Muslims who are rolling their eyes.)
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hi Elena, i am so surprised from you knowledge of Islam . I think you are a smart person and hard worker so keep up the good work Emotion: big smile

and beleive me i respect your opinion and your knowledge.

you said that Quran gives details too, but not as Hadith because Hadith explains Quran always in the matters that Quran didn't explain it totally.

and in this case Hadith doesn't contradict the Quran because the Quran doesn't say (don't kill them ). therefore, it is not contradictEmotion: wink

and about your last point about the other school of thought. well, the major school which called ( Sunna ) beleive in this punishment and agree with it totally and the Muslims in this school are much more than all the Muslims in all the other school, so it is closer to the right thing ( i think ).

again thank you all and especially for you Elena , but i want to ask you something , how do you know that much about Islam ????? because these things that you have told and the phrases from the Quran and Hadith not every Muslims konw it , just the relegouis Muslim , so could you tell me ?

bye
Hi Alasiri,

thanks for the kind words, but I know very few about the religions I am interested in, Islam, Shikhism and Jainism. It's surpriisng you say I know things that not every Muslim knows just the religious because what I have read is available in the quran, books, articles online and offline and the few muslims I have met personally know all of this.

Back to the topic, you say:

and in this case Hadith doesn't contradict the Quran because the Quran doesn't say (don't kill them ). therefore, it is not contradict

it is the other way around, it is not the quran that has to match the hadiths, but the hadiths that have to not contradict the quran as far as I know, thus, the statements "There is no compulsion in religion" (quran) and "if a Muslim discards his religion, kill him"(Bukhari) contradict each other dramatically, don't they?

I know you and many other interpret these texts giving priority to Bukhari. I don't understand well this fact when everywhere you read about islam it is said that the Quran is always priority, the first and main source, even it is clearly explained that the quran is considered God's word by the muslims.

You also wrote: but i want to ask you something , how do you know that much about Islam ????? because these things that you have told and the phrases from the Quran and Hadith not every Muslims konw it , just the relegouis Muslim , so could you tell me ?

I started reading about islam many years ago, in 2000 or 2001, after knowing that Muslims believed in hell literally, when hell is for me a tale or a parable. I read parts of the quran in many translations in my language and in English, articles, some books, I discused with muslims, and that's it. There are plenty of information on the net as well.