A Question Abut Subjunctive Mood?

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A Question Abut Subjunctive Mood?

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Hi, everyone. Here is a conversation with which I'm deeply puzzled.

Howard: I really don’t want to recommend Paula Forster.

She wouldn’t be satisfied until she had my job.

Trish: But she is the best candidate, right?

If she isn't promoted, it could be seen as an unfair decision.

Why Howard doesn’t say like this--- ‘She won’t be satisfied until she has my job.’

‘She wouldn’t be satisfied until she had my job’ is an example of the subjunctive mood?

Why the subjunctive mood is used here?

Sep 27 2010 06:44:20

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Bob2010Why Howard doesn’t say like this--- ‘She won’t be satisfied until she has my job.’

He can't say: She won't be satisfied because she hasn't yet been promoted.

Bob2010‘She wouldn’t be satisfied until she had my job’ is an example of the subjunctive mood?

No, it's an example of the present conditional. Would isn't normally used in subordinate temporal clauses beginning with until.
Bob2010But she is the best candidate, right?
If she isn't promoted, it could be seen as an unfair decision.

Isn't promoted is the best choice here bacause is is used in the previous sentence. I wouldn't consider weren't promoted incorrect, though. It goes together with could very well even though in my opinion sn't promoted sounds good here for the reason I just cited.

CB

Sep 27 2010 08:39:35

Bob2010‘She wouldn’t be satisfied until she had my job’ is an example of the subjunctive mood?

It's neither subjunctive, nor conditional. It's mangled indicative. The correct indicative should be:

'She won't be satisfied until she has my job'.

The conditional would be:

'She wouldn't be satisfied, if she didn't have my job'

The subjunctive would be:

'She wants me to give her my job'.

"Until" is a conjunction of time dependent clause, similar to "when". It belongs to Indicative Mood.

Sep 27 2010 21:04:41

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The author of the sentence might have confused "until" with "unless" with the latter indeed being a part of condition dependent clause.

Sep 27 2010 21:24:40

I agree that there is some sort of mix-up between unless and until.

She won't be satisfied until she has my job. Indicative. I don't know why your example was written with the subjunctive.
She wouldn't be satisfied unless she had my job. Subjunctive. Hypothetical. Similar to this "second conditional":

If she didn't get my job, she would be dissatisfied.

Also possible:
She won't be satisfied unless she has my job. Indicative. Real.

CJ

Sep 27 2010 21:38:48

CalifJimShe won't be satisfied until she has my job. Indicative. I don't know why your example was written with the subjunctive

Whose example? Mine? Mine says "indicative".

CalifJimShe wouldn't be satisfied unless she had my job. Subjunctive. Hypothetical. Similar to this "second conditional":If she didn't get my job, she would be dissatisfied.Also possible:She won't be satisfied unless she has my job. Indicative. Real.CJ

Nope. Conditional. "Unless" is as a "conditionally" subjunction as "if" with the exception that it includes a negation. No meaningful (mood-change-demanding) difference.

To transform it into subjunctive you need to introduce a verb reflecting a wish, order, prohibition, etc. And it won't contain "would".

Sep 27 2010 22:15:34

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CalifJimShe wouldn't be satisfied unless she had my job. Subjunctive. Hypothetical. Similar to this "second conditional"

I am sorry, but wasn't that you in the neighboring thread who was thanked for this affirmation:
“In contrast, the subjunctive mood never contains the word "would", so there you have the difference.”?

Sep 27 2010 22:21:24

rinoceronteI am sorry, but wasn't that you in the neighboring thread who was thanked for this affirmation:
“In contrast, the subjunctive mood never contains the word "would", so there you have the difference.”?

Yes. And why are you sorry about that?

The subjunctive part is in the unless clause, of course -- not in the main clause.

She wouldn't be satisfied unless she had my job. Subjunctive. Hypothetical.

CJ

Sep 28 2010 01:00:34

rinoceronteI don't know why your example was written with the subjunctive ... Whose example? Mine? Mine says "indicative".

No. Not your example. As usual, I'm answering the original poster's question, not commenting on anybody else's answers.

CJ

Sep 28 2010 01:03:08

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Bob2010Why Howard doesn’t say like this--- ‘She won’t be satisfied until she has my job.’
He can't say: She won't be satisfied because she hasn't yet been promoted.
Bob2010‘She wouldn’t be satisfied until she had my job’ is an example of the subjunctive mood?
No, it's an example of the present conditional. Would isn't normally used in subordinate temporal clauses beginning with until.
Bob2010But she is the best candidate, right?
If she isn't promoted, it could be seen as an unfair decision.

Isn't promoted is the best choice here bacause is is used in the previous sentence. I wouldn't consider weren't promoted incorrect, though. It goes together with could very well even though in my opinion sn't promoted sounds good here for the reason I just cited.

CB
Bob2010‘She wouldn’t be satisfied until she had my job’ is an example of the subjunctive mood?
It's neither subjunctive, nor conditional. It's mangled indicative. The correct indicative should be:

'She won't be satisfied until she has my job'.

The conditional would be:

'She wouldn't be satisfied, if she didn't have my job'

The subjunctive would be:

'She wants me to give her my job'.

"Until" is a conjunction of time dependent clause, similar to "when". It belongs to Indicative Mood.
The author of the sentence might have confused "until" with "unless" with the latter indeed being a part of condition dependent clause.
I agree that there is some sort of mix-up between unless and until.

She won't be satisfied until she has my job. Indicative. I don't know why your example was written with the subjunctive.
She wouldn't be satisfied unless she had my job. Subjunctive. Hypothetical. Similar to this "second conditional":

If she didn't get my job, she would be dissatisfied.

Also possible:
She won't be satisfied unless she has my job. Indicative. Real.

CJ
CalifJimShe won't be satisfied until she has my job. Indicative. I don't know why your example was written with the subjunctive
Whose example? Mine? Mine says "indicative".
CalifJimShe wouldn't be satisfied unless she had my job. Subjunctive. Hypothetical. Similar to this "second conditional":If she didn't get my job, she would be dissatisfied.Also possible:She won't be satisfied unless she has my job. Indicative. Real.CJ
Nope. Conditional. "Unless" is as a "conditionally" subjunction as "if" with the exception that it includes a negation. No meaningful (mood-change-demanding) difference.

To transform it into subjunctive you need to introduce a verb reflecting a wish, order, prohibition, etc. And it won't contain "would".
CalifJimShe wouldn't be satisfied unless she had my job. Subjunctive. Hypothetical. Similar to this "second conditional"
I am sorry, but wasn't that you in the neighboring thread who was thanked for this affirmation:
“In contrast, the subjunctive mood never contains the word "would", so there you have the difference.”?
rinoceronteI am sorry, but wasn't that you in the neighboring thread who was thanked for this affirmation:
“In contrast, the subjunctive mood never contains the word "would", so there you have the difference.”?
Yes. And why are you sorry about that?

The subjunctive part is in the unless clause, of course -- not in the main clause.

She wouldn't be satisfied unless she had my job. Subjunctive. Hypothetical.

CJ
rinoceronteI don't know why your example was written with the subjunctive ... Whose example? Mine? Mine says "indicative".
No. Not your example. As usual, I'm answering the original poster's question, not commenting on anybody else's answers.

CJ

A Question Abut Subjunctive Mood?

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