A "contrastive focus reduplication" is a name which has been given to the doubling of a word or string of words which "restricts the interpretation of the copied element to a 'real' or prototypical reading."(1) We've spoken of this phenomenon in these newsgroups. An example is "You make the Jello salad and I'll make the salad salad," where the reduplication "salad salad" refers to a green salad. Another example would be one of the Esperanto terms for "ordinary mail" or "snail mail": "poshtposhto," based upon "poshto" and contrasting with "retposhto" ( = "E-mail," literally "Web mail" ) which is an example of a contrastive focus reduplication which has been turned into a retronym.

Last night on Tough Crowd with Colin Quinn I heard another example. A guest mentioned "9/11" ("nine-eleven"). Quinn asked him "You don't mean 9/11 this year, do you?" and the guest replied, "No, 9/11 9/11."

Note:

(1) That definition, and the term itself, comes from "Contrastive Focus Reduplication in English (The SALAD-salad Paper)" by Jila Ghomeshi, Ray Jackendoff, Nicole Rosen, and Kevin Russell which can be read at

http://www.umanitoba.ca/linguistics/ghomeshi/redup12.pdf

Some examples of contrastive focus reduplication are given at

http://www.umanitoba.ca/linguistics/russell/redup-corpus.html

-- Raymond S. Wise Minneapolis, Minnesota USA
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in message ...
A "contrastive focus reduplication" is a name which has been given to the doubling of a word or string of ... mentioned "9/11" ("nine-eleven"). Quinn asked him "You don't mean9/11 this year, do you?" and the guest replied, "No, 9/11 9/11."

There is a common mythology (joke) that women say these word doublings more often than men. But, I find men say them just as often as women.

It also occurs with languages: English English (UK English or England English) French French (Metropolitan French) etc.

Larry
[nq:1] in message ...
A "contrastive focus reduplication" is a name which has been given tothe doubling of a word or string of words which "restricts theinterpretation

of

the copied element to a 'real' or prototypical reading."(1) We've spoken

of

this phenomenon in these newsgroups. An example is "You make the Jello

salad

and I'll make the salad salad," where the reduplication "salad salad"

refers

to a green salad. Another example would be one of ... example of a contrastive focus reduplication which has been turnedinto

a

retronym. Last night on Tough Crowd with Colin Quinn I heard another example. A guest mentioned "9/11" ("nine-eleven"). Quinn asked him "You don't mean

9/11

this year, do you?" and the guest replied, "No, 9/11 9/11."

There is a common mythology (joke) that women say these word doublingsmore often than men. But, I find men say them just as often as women. It also occurs with languages: English English (UK English or England English) French French (Metropolitan French) etc.

For the record, it was a man who uttered "9/11 9/11" on Colin Quinn's program. I have heard "party party" in the wild, uttered by a woman.

-- Raymond S. Wise Minneapolis, Minnesota USA
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[nq:1] in message ...
Last night on Tough Crowd with Colin Quinn I heard ... year, do you?" and the guest replied, "No, 9/11 9/11."

It also occurs with languages: English English (UK English or England English)

I don't think that one is an example. The second "English" is the language; the first one is the adjectival form of "England". So English English is the sort of English spoken in England. Makes perfect sense to me.
in message ...
in message ... It also occurs with languages: English English (UK English or England English)

I don't think that one is an example. The second "English" is the language; the first one is the adjectival form of "England". So English English is the sort of English spoken in England. Makes perfect sense to me.

Well, most of the time all of these instances of double wording (reduplication) make sense to me. It could be as you described or the specific type of English from the general English language. No different than the specific 9/11 out of all 9/11 dates or this year, or a "salad salad" (though I hadn't heard that one before), no?

Larry
[nq:1] in message ...
9/11

I don't think that one is an example. The second ... of English spoken in England. Makes perfect sense to me.

Well, most of the time all of these instances of double wording (reduplication) make sense to me. It could be ... out of all 9/11 dates or this year, or a "salad salad" (though I hadn't heard that one before), no?

Here's a complication to the whole matter. I personally know one Englishman and have read of others who very much dislike the term "English English" (and "British English," for that matter). To them, the dialect in question-which they wouldn't acknowledge as being a dialect-is "English," and it is "American English," "Australian English," and so forth, which require an additional word.

A person who uses contrastive focus reduplication is identifying the repeated word to be the prototypical or "real" form, but those who dislike the term "English English" as much as my friend does, while they would certainly think of "English" as the prototypical or "real" form, would avoid the reduplication, since they consider "English English" to be a pleonasm rather than a useful term.

-- Raymond S. Wise Minneapolis, Minnesota USA
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On Fri, 11 Jul 2003 08:09:25 -0500, "Raymond S. Wise" (Email Removed) said:

( . . . )
A person who uses contrastive focus reduplication is identifying the repeated word to be the prototypical or "real" form, but ... "real" form, would avoid the reduplication, since they consider "English English" to be a pleonasm rather than a useful term.

Those people are out of touch with the times. They would be well advised to read the article "English English" in The Oxford Companion to the English Language.

An excerpt from that article:

The usage was rare until the 1980s, when, with its synonym _Anglo-English_, it began to be used in professional discussions of English.

But in Message-ID: #1/1 dated 25 January 1996, I made the following remarks:

Footnote:

I may be the only one in the world so far using the word "Angloid". I have suggested it in the past as the ideal name for the family of "English" languages spoken round the world.

If a name like "Angloid" were to be adopted, the just claim of the residents of England to the sole use of the name "English Language" could be satisfied.

The residents of the USA could then call their speech "American Angloid", the Australians, "Australian Angloid", and the English people could call theirs either "English" or "English Angloid" depending upon the demands of the context.

I further suggest that if the other countries wanted a short form for their speech in situations where a distinction was not required, they could all call their languages simply "Angloid".

I should add that some people have said that "Anglic" has been proposed for a generic name for English languages. As I have said in the past, the name "Anglic" has already been used with a quite different meaning (an international auxiliary language devised by R. E. Zachrisson; see RHUD2 or NSOED/93); "Angloid" would be less ambiguous.

At the time I proposed the use of "Angloid", someone who had seen too many sci-fi movies tried to argue that the suffix "-oid" suggests something ugly and misshapen. It means simply "having the form of, like, similar to, as android, colloid, metalloid, ovoid, spheroid, steroid,_ etc." (_NSOED).

I've long heard that the Earth is an oblate spheroid, meaning that it's like a sphere, but isn't quite one. (I've read somewhere recently that the Earth is now called an oblate ellipsoid.)

If "English" were restricted to a language used in England, other languages that are like that language but not quite the same could quite properly be called Angloid.
[nq:2] in message ...
the interpretation

of of salad refers

for is into

a 9/11 There is a common mythology (joke) that women say these word doublings

more

often than men. But, I find men say them just ... (UK English or England English) French French (Metropolitan French) etc.

For the record, it was a man who uttered "9/11 9/11" on Colin Quinn's program. I have heard "party party" in the wild, uttered by a woman.

Would those examples be 'contrastive', when the contrast isn't stated explicitly?

-- john
In article (Email Removed), John says...
For the record, it was a man who uttered "9/11 ... heard "party party" in the wild, uttered by a woman.

Would those examples be 'contrastive', when the contrast isn't stated explicitly?

Hear hear!...

Someday I'd like to be presented with a context where I can say "that's just a weight on a spring; I want a yo-yo yo-yo"..r
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