I decided to create a topic in this forum, because I found myself debating the truth of the Armenian genocide with some others in the Discussion forums. It is indeed controversial, so I thought it would be better to discuss such a subject over here.

For those unfamiliar, the Armenian genocide is said to have been perpetrated by the Ottoman Empire between the years 1915 and 1923. According to some sources, 1.5 million are Armenian died at the hands of the Turks. However, Turkey continues to deny that such a genocide occurred and was sanctioned by the Ottoman goverment. The controversy lies therein.

I believe that the Armenian genocide did occur. My grandfather is the son of Armenian immigrants to the United States, thus the issue is a bit personal to me.
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I lived for two years in Turkey, and no Turk admitted that the "flushing" of Armenians from the country ever occured. For the last 30 years all the Turks I know and am in contact with deny the events. I have also met Armenians in this country who have very different tales to tell. I used the term "flushing" above because many victims were given the opportunity, or the time, at least, to escape the barbarism. I taught with a woman whose mother was shipped in a traveling trunk from Izmir (Smyrna) to Alexandria. An American that I knew in Turkey, now a professor of M.E. studies in the mid-west, affirms that no such thing happened. He appears in a TV special from the mid-1980's, explaining his belief. Juxtaposed with him is an extensive interview of an elderly Armenian woman who travels with the makers of the film to the spot where she lived and through the areas that she used to escape.

I recently heard a representative from the Turkish Embassy to the U.S. say that he is more or less of the persuasion that it all happened, but he was speaking personally rather than officially. He suggested that the only way it is going to be resolved is for the current government to 1) admit that it happened, 2) make an official apology, 3) swear that nothing like that will ever happen again [Kurds?], and 4) get on with life. He doesn't expect that to happen soon.

I love the Turkish people, and I love the Armenians that I have known. I wish the resentment could disappear, because they are all good people. The governments of good people do bad things in the name of the people they represent; unfortunately, this is a fact of history.


Not massacre.Armenians rebeled during The World War 1.They busted to turkish villages.Ottoman Empire governments took a decision about Armenians for security of the east Anatolian security..The decision was "Migration".Armenians required migrate to Syria..Migration was started by Ottoman government.There were diffucult winter condition,epidemic illnesses.So many Armenian people died during the migration.It was a tragedy but not genocide.Ottoman goverment has never taken decision about "Genocide"....

Ottoman Empire archives has opened.Turkey opens them.But Armenian archives are closed.Turkey says " Armenians should open their archives" But Armenians don't open them..Why?? Ottoman Empire has never done genocide..Please research all government archives..

Some Tidbits of reality..

IN THE 19th CENTURY IN THE OTTOMAN EMPIRE:
29 Armenians achieved the highest governmental rank of pasha,
22 Armenians became ministers, including Ministers of Foreign Affairs,
33 Armenians were elected to the Parliament,
7 Armenians were appointed as Ambassadors, 11 as Consul Generals,
11 Armenians served in universities as professors.

There were 803 Armenian schools employing 2088 teachers with over 80,000 pupils within the Ottoman Empire in 1901-2.

I think governments and people dont have to argue about it and only Historians research "what happened in 1915"..Because only They're neutral..

Please visit this website..

http://www.ermenisorunu.gen.tr/english/index.html

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I don't know what really happened at that period of time, just wanna say this that the government and its archives are also cannot be trusted!

These kind of controversial debates are always present when it comes to this kind of matter. I think the Jwish genocide during the word war II is another example. I think that many jews were killed and suffered, but along with lots of other people from different nationalities. And the Jews exagerate it so to make other people feel pity and maybe give them the right to return to Jerusalem and have this never ending war with Palestinians. Forget about the Jews, all I wanna say is that none of the parties are trustworthy, there is always exageration and denial involved; and we haven't witnessed those events ourselves; so, who knows what really happened?

However, it's interesting that the Germany's government still apologizes on the anniversary of the ocassion, and Turkey is still on denial!
Because Turkey has never done it...

Migration and Genocide, Each other is different one..

Turkey has documents about Armenian issue.Some armenians helped to Russia when Ottoman Empire - Russia war.And some of armenians rebeled at east countries.Ottoman empire has taken a decision(migration) for only the east anatolian Armenians..(is it genocide?) Caution : Only East Anatolian Armenians..Also in Ottoman Empire governent , there were lots of armenian at high position..(I said that at my last post with document)

Armenians died when they migrated to Syria [because of difficult migration condition.(winter,illness etc.)]

It's only nonsense..Please you look neutral...
Actually Nonconformist, I am taking a netral position here. I am neither an Armenian descendant, nor a Turk. And that makes more neutral than you. That's why I said that most probably neither the government of Turkey is telling the whole truth, nor the Armeniasns.; It has to be something in between. And as I said earlier, where were you at that time? Not born yet? If you follow the politicians you'll find out they are hiding the truth all the time!

Good day to you,
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Unfortunately we face this claim everywhere. Everyone thinks that Turks made a genocide to Armenians. I will explain the issue as I can:

In the World War I, Ottoman Empire had to battle in a lot of front. There were seven fronts which Ottoman Empire have. Also Ottoman Empire had an enormous economical crisis. Ottomans doesn't have any manufacturing places and had a big amount of loans to foreign countries. During that time, some of Armenians rebelled due to provoking of Russia. I don't believe all of Armenians rebelled. However, Armenians set up some gangs and attacked innocent Turkish people and they started to massacre. The aim was create The Great Armenia. After this situation, Ottoman Empire decided to make Armenians migrate. All of Armenians living in Southern East and East Anatolian Region had to migrate out of Ottoman Empire's borders. Maybe innocent Armenians had to migrate but there were no better thing to stop the rebel. During the migrate 35.000 Armenians were killed due to diseases and other reasons.

Maybe both people died and experienced many things they don't want to do it. However, there weren't a genocide. Armenians, Syrians, Greeks, Kurds And Turks has been living together for hundreds of years. Some people make us seperate and destroy the peace of folks. I don't accuse all of Armenians of massacring Turks or visa versa. They were affected by imperialist countries.
Thanks uykusuz, your more netral message made me to look for the issue myself, and the following article is the result:

genocide#Recent_history.E2.80.94_timeline

You're right, and also you Nonconformist, along with the Turkish government that there was not a direct order from the government. But just listen to this story that is about my own country, Iran. As you may probably be aware if you listen to the international news, there is a journalist who was arrested a year or two ago and sentenced to 10 years, I think. About 2 months ago, he went on a hunger strike to show his complaint about the faults in the judicial system. His condition got worse and worse, till the prison authorities were forced to take him to the hospital. After spending a few more days there, his condition continued going down, and at the same time, the doctors were told by the system to operate him on his knees, since they were in a really bad condition. The interesting point was that the doctors had responded that he wouldn't survive any kind of anaesthetic and they didn't go for the surgery despite the insistance they received! Anyway, if it had happened and he had died during the surgery, was his blood on the hands of the government, since they had not issued any order to kill him?

I think it was the same story back then again. There is certainly some exageration about the number of the people who actually didn't survive the relocation process, but as the Turkish government accepts, many were killed during the events.

And as Nonconformist had mentioned earlier, the Armanian government didn't open their archived to be investigated by Turkish and Armenian historians, it's a pity, but look at this quote from the above article:

  • April 2004 : The Turkish government, in their new Penal Code, added a penalty of ten years in prison for any person who confirms that the Armenian Genocide took place. [2] The U.K. Parliament suggested, however, that "There is no mention of ... the Armenian genocide" in this penal code.

    Apparently, maybe it wasn't a genocide, but the result of that migration order was devastating and took a large toll. I think that we will know the truth when we die. And either it has happened or not, there is no reason for any hostality, revenge, ... We are not in a position to judge others, God will punish whoever was responsible for any of Turks and Armanians killings.
  • Clearly this controversy stems from a denial of the truth. That is, one of the two sides, the Armenians or the Turks, is lying. I think that then leads to a question of motivation. What would the Armenians stand to gain from a continued exaggeration of the brutality of Turkish policies toward them? In contrast, how would the Turkish goverment benefit from denying an attempt to exterminate the Armenians within their borders?

    I have already made clear my postion on the issue, and it seems to me that there is more motivation for the Turks to deny an attempted genocide, than for the Armenians to fabricate stories of one. I think that the Turkish government was initally embarrased about its actions once they were discovered by the international community. However, rather and apologize or even admit to what they had done, the Turkish goverment chose a policy of denial. The fact that they would make it a crime to vocalize an opinion that the genocide did occur, further hurts their case in my eyes. If the Turkish government was certain that the massacres are a lie, then why wouldn't they encourage discussion of the subject? The truth should be more likely tp come out eventually with enough study and analysis. Of course, if the genocide did indeed occur, then it makes perfect sense to make the subject taboo. Digging up the past would prove them to be liars. Furthermore, the longer they would continue to deny the truth, the more humiliating it would be to finally admit to it. They would not only have to confess to the genocide, but also to a massive cover-up.
    I think the Jwish genocide during the word war II is another example. I think that many jews were killed and suffered, but along with lots of other people from different nationalities. And the Jews exagerate it so to make other people feel pity and maybe give them the right to return to Jerusalem and have this never ending war with Palestinians.
    While I would agree that too often people forget that 5 of the 11 million of the people killed in the Holocaust were not Jews, that doesn't mean that the Jews are necessary exaggerating their collective suffering in that period of history. One could just as easily argue that those opposed to the existence of Israel try to minimize the Holocaust so as to prevent sympathy for the Jews. That's just something to consider. Also, in an attempt to bring this back to the original topic, recall too that Armenians are not seeking to legitamize the right of the state of Armenia to exist. There really isn't much political motivation for them to continue to accuse Turkey. However, if they are telling the truth, there is indeed a lot of personal motivation.
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