For reasons unknown to me, a post I wrote to this thread, and which I reposted when it did not appear, still has not appeared. Therefore, I am going to limit it to alt.usage.english this time. My apologies to anyone who receives the previous posts along with this one.
***

Your use of "redneck" here strikes me as problematic. While some people might connect the term "redneck" with the idea of a person who holds racist beliefs, I don't believe that is usually held to be the case. Jeff Foxworthy, born and raised in the southern US state of Georgia, is a comedian and actor who has built up a whole career based upon a stereotype of rednecks which appears to contain not one iota of racism.

Then there is the use of the term on the American animated television program King of the Hill, created by Mike Judge(1). In that program, Hank Hill's neighbor Kahn Souphanousinphone regularly refers to Hank as a "redneck." It has been made abundantly clear that Hank is no racist, so we would expect him to object to Kahn's use of "redneck" if it did indeed mean, to those characters living in Texas, "racist." Yet Hank has never made that objection. We have to conclude that for Mike Judge, "redneck" does not mean "racist." If Judge had gotten it seriously wrong, I would expect the matter to have started a controversy, but no such controversy has occurred.
Note:
(1) Judge was born in Ecuador, raised in New Mexico, attended college in California, and has lived for at least a decade in Texas.

Raymond S. Wise
Minneapolis, Minnesota USA
E-mail: mplsray @ yahoo . com
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No doubt there is also a problem in linking it to "yankee", when seen as an internal US term. If you can suggest another reasonably short description, I'll use it
But whatever they are called, they are the ones that use "bongo", in a way that seems to have a special meaning to others of their kind, so that they can use it and expect to be understood by at least some other people.

Steve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/7734/stevesig.htm
E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk
But whatever they are called, they are the ones that use "bongo", in a way that seems to have a special meaning to others of their kind, so that they can use it and expect to be understood by at least some other people.

Racists. Call them what they are. If you want to identify their origin, call them American racists. They are probably not Yankees, and not necessarily rednecks.

The Web Bloodhound: http://home.earthlink.net/~tony cooper213/icanbeglitzy.html
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"Bwana" in them, and words to What do when

sent this at 7:46 PM on Wednesday, but it has ... rednecks which appears to contain not one iota of racism.

No doubt there is also a problem in linking it to "yankee", when seen as an internal US term. If ... of their kind, so that they can use it and expect to be understood by at least some other people.

Presuming you are correct in believing that the people in question are both white and racists, then "white racists" would be the appropriate term. Unless you have some strong reason to think that they are either from the American South or are from some other part of the US, you should identify them as neither (US) Southerner nor American, and unless you have some reason to believe that they are poor (US)Southerners, you should not identify them as "rednecks," because that is a term which does not apply to middle-class and rich people, and its use for poor whites who live outside the American South is questionable, and is certainly one which I have very rarely encountered in a serious context. I wouldn't use the term "redneck" in any case:
From the MWCD11:
(quote)
Main Entry: red┬Ěneck

Function: noun
Date: 1830

1 sometimes disparaging : a white member of the Southern rurallaboring class

2 often disparaging : a person whose behavior and opinions aresimilar to those attributed to rednecks
(end quote)
To be specific about examples you discussed in an earlier post, in *The Simpsons, neither Willie the groundskeeper nor Homer Simpson come anywhere close to being identifiable with any definition of "redneck" whatsoever.

Raymond S. Wise
Minneapolis, Minnesota USA
E-mail: mplsray @ yahoo . com
"Bwana" in them, and words to What do when No ... expect to be understood by at least some other people.

Presuming you are correct in believing that the people in question are both white and racists, then "white racists" would ... often disparaging : a person whose behavior and opinions are similar to those attributed to rednecks (end quote)

No 2 seems to beg the question. What behaviour and opinions are attributed to rednecks?
To be specific about examples you discussed in an earlier post, in *The Simpsons, neither Willie the groundskeeper nor Homer Simpson come anywhere close to being identifiable with any definition of "redneck" whatsoever.

I haven't watched enough of the Simpsons to place the reference. Does Homer Simpson talk a lot about niggers? I haven't noticed it in the few episodes I've watched.

Steve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/7734/stevesig.htm
E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk
No 2 seems to beg the question. What behaviour and opinions are attributed to rednecks?

Despite what Tony says, and despite what I said with regard to the meaning of the term 60 years ago, "redneck" today has come to mean "ignorant Southern rural white racist" to many people. My guess is that the stereotype originated in the public image of some of the demagogic Southern rural white racist politicians who resisted integration in the 1960s.

John Varela
(Trade "OLD" lamps for "NEW" for email.)
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No 2 seems to beg the question. What behaviour and opinions are attributed to rednecks?

Despite what Tony says, and despite what I said with regard to the meaning of the term 60 years ago, ... in the public image of some of the demagogic Southern rural white racist politicians who resisted integration in the 1960s.

Yes, it has to many people. Many people persist in being wrong. "***" has come to mean a term of racial insult to some people. We should try to dispel any such "mean"s.
If we don't point out that the accepted meaning is different, the stereotype is perpetuated. I'm doing my part to dispel the stereotype in Steve's part of South Africa.

The Web Bloodhound: http://home.earthlink.net/~tony cooper213/icanbeglitzy.html
Despite what Tony says, and despite what I said with ... rural white racist politicians who resisted integration in the 1960s.

Yes, it has to many people. Many people persist in being wrong. "***" has come to mean a term of ... is different, the stereotype is perpetuated. I'm doing my part to dispel the stereotype in Steve's part of South Africa.

I sympathize with you, but you're fighting a losing battle. It seems that these days "rednecks" are the only ethnic group that it's PC to insult.

John Varela
(Trade "OLD" lamps for "NEW" for email.)
I apologize for munging the address but the spam is too much.
I sympathize with you, but you're fighting a losing battle. It seems that these days "rednecks" are the only ethnic group that it's PC to insult.

Waddaya talkin? White males of almost any ethnicity are fair game, as are WASPs. Men in suits. Men in ties. Men who play golf. Bankers, lawyers, CEOs. They're all scummy, slimey bastards. Okay, that's not ethnic exactly, but neither is "redneck".

Michael West
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