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"breed trait. in the

I think even happy cats like to catch mice. So ... happiness that causes some dogs to attack childen and adults.

You're right, but it *is* part of dog behaviour to interact with other animals as befits a dog.

I agree with you or accept your word about all of this, except for the "but" in the first line above. I think an "and" would have fit much better. Because of the "but", I thought you were disagreeing with me and wasn't sure until the end that you weren't.
I mention this because I've noticed that a lot of people use "but" or other words that tend to show disagreement when they are not disagreeing with the post they are replying to. I think it's a habit we have, especially those on the net.
Unlike cats, dogs are for the most part, pack animals, and exhibit the behaviours associated therewith. Defending and acquiring territory, ... learns from the pack leader which situations require aggression and which require submission. In a domestic suburban setting, good owners

I think many people are lucky if they get their dog house broken and have no idea how to train the dog for the things you mention below.

Unrelated to your post:
I'm particularly concerned about this because a nearby neighbor in my townhouse n'hood has a pitbull (one word is ok by me!) that they routinely walk without a leash, or just let hang around outside without a leash. Other neighbors have told me that they have complained to Animal Control, but it stopped once for a day or two and they're back to it.
I have other reasons I won't go into to think their dog is particularly likely to have a bad day sometime and attack.
There are a lot of little kids around here, and when I said that they all maintain their dogs are nice, I was including those who had reason to think so. Dogs who had never bitten anyone until the day they do. I wish I had a gun, but I've already picked out the knife I will use if I hear a child screaming outside my door, and see her with the dog clamped on her limb.

What do you all thing the chances I can kill it with a knife in its belly before it bites me too? Should I go for below the rib cage, or try to put it in with the blade parallel to and between the ribs? Should I use the knife with the 10 inch blade or the 4 inch blade. I presume it is the longer one.
I wasn't suggesting that pitbulls be illegal (although the retirement community in Florida I visited had a 15 or 20 pound weight limit for resident dogs, and now that I think about it, probably prohibited pitbulls too. Most of the dogs are about half the size of the limit.) but I don't know that they would have bought if pitbulls didn't exist. Large dogs are expensive to feed and cleaning up after them is no picnic.Further OT. When I was about 8 I found a cocker spaniel a block from my home. It started following me, so I decided to go home where it could meet the cocker spaniel who lived just behind my house (at another house). When I got there, the other one came out to meet us no fence but the two never got closer than 15 feet. Instead the dog following me started jumping up with his/her** front legs on my back and I must say that he scared me.

I couldn't tell if he was happy I'd introduced the two of them or angry about it. I couldn't see the wound, but I did end up with some scratches on my back, and my mother thought they were scratches but wasn't sure they didn't include a bite. So she took me to the vet! She figured he would know better than my doctor would.
**I don't know what sex either of them were, or if they were the same or different.Further OOT. Despite this story, which was only of slight consequence, and that I was bitten by a large dog on the calf when riding my bike in Chicago, I keep my fingers tucked in when they are near a dog's mouth, but other than that I don't think I'm afraid of them. AFter the dog bit, I called the dog catcher, and when they got to the building, they said there were two almost identical dogs, and sicne I couldn't tell them which one it was, they didn't impound either.

The owner of one told me it had its shots, but when I called the vet whose name they gave me, he had never heard of them or the dog. Although this was about 1968, the doctor at the student health service said there hadn't been a case of rabies in Chicago for 30 years iirc, so I didn't do anything. It can take up to 10 years to get rabies with a bite far away from the brain, but I'm still here so I guess things are ok.
When I was in jhs and hs, I lived in the suburbs and there was a pack of 10 or 20 dogs of many breeds that I would see crossing the street going from one backyard to another while I waited for the school bus. They were all dogs owned by neighbors who let them out in the morning and let them return when they wanted to. I never heard of anyone getting bitten. They were probably never cornered. I think that's the way dogs should live, but I make an exception for pitbulls, especially since we have little yards and it lives only 50 feet from my front door, and i normally walk past its spot to get to my car, and the little kids.
are training their dogs that the territory is safe from intruders, and that no more than a warning bark is ... will present as threatening and elicit the aggressive behaviour. Being unhappy has little to do with it. FRAN rather that

s/ meirman If you are emailing me please say ... years Brooklyn NY 12 years now in Baltimore 22 years

s/ meirman

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But it is more funny looking.

Only if it has a "lion clip"; a working poodle doesn't look nearly as silly as the ones that are groomed for show.

Very true.
s/ meirman

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Born west of Pittsburgh Pa. 10 years
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"breed trait. in the You're right, but it *is* part of dog behaviour to interact withother animals as befits a dog.

I agree with you or accept your word about all of this, except forthe "but" in the first line above. ... disagreeing with the post they are replying to. I think it's a habit we have, especially those on the net.

That may be so in my case too. I was however, asserting that inferences about cat behaviour don't travel well when applied to dogs. Unlike a dog, a fearful cat tends to make itself scarce. Cats 'rumble' and grab with their mouths as part of normal play. So do dogs, but this is unconnected with what we're talking about here.
Unlike cats, dogs are for the most part, pack animals, ... aggressionand which require submission. In a domestic suburban setting, goodowners

I think many people are lucky if they get their dog house broken and have no idea how to train ... in my townhouse n'hood has a pitbull (one word is ok by me!) that they routinely walk without a leash,[/nq]It's quite wrong for any* owner to be walking *any dog other than on a leash in a public space. If you are in a confined space (such as a sports oval and you are alone and the dog is well dispciplined, then off-lead is OK, provided that when another dog enters and comes within range (say 50 yards) you resume being on lead. If everybody walked their dogs properly (ie with the dog/dogs tight at the left knee and particularly when other dogs are near) almost all the trouble would be avoided.

One of my dogs, (a SheltieX somethingorother) is a lovely dog but a compulsive chaser of anything running, including passing motor vehicles, bicycles, skateboards, skates, joggers etc. She wants to "round them up" like sheep. She is good with other dogs, but if she stirred up another dog, there could be trouble. My alpha dog, (a Chi X Jack Russell) hates large dogs in general but gets VERY defensive when he spots a Border Collie or Lab, both of which he'd like to take a piece of.

He's getting better. After much training, now hides between my legs and grwols, and on one ocaasion he found a small shrub and buried his face in it to avoid making eye contact with a Labrador puppy who was bounding about without a care in the world.
or just let hang around outside without a leash. Other neighbors have told me that they have complained to Animal ... reasons I won't go into to think their dog is particularly likely to have a bad day sometime and attack.

It's really a good thing for dog owners to find a local club and take their dogs along to obedience training. The dogs actually like it and you can learn a lot from observing ohter owners and their dogs.
There are a lot of little kids around here, and when I said that they all maintain their dogs are ... you all thing the chances I can kill it with a knife in its belly before it bites me too?[/nq]I had a horrible experience in Glasgow some years back. I'd been walking with my partner (sans dog) and an older gentleman was walking his Border Collie (I'm guessing it was 2-3 years old) and something out of your worst stereotypes of bad dog ownewrs hoved into view. Two young guys, skinhead cuts, accompanying their Pit Bull, spiked collar and all (no, I didn't check to see it met the Breed Standard, but there was no mistaking the lines). Off lead dogs don't interact well with on lead dogs, and the Collie gave a low warning growl.

The Pit Bull went straight for the collie and sunk its teeth into the Collie's lower back. The two "skinheads" began laying into their dog, but of course, it wouldn't release. My partner picked up a nearby smaller branch from the tree and inserted it into the Pit Bull's jaws and by a combination of gag f\reflex and levearge managed to free the Collie. Too late though, the Collie was in shock and before we could get it to our home nearby and into a car, it was dead.

The two lads with the Pit Bull of course disappeared.
Should I go for below the rib cage, or try to put it in with the blade parallel toand between the ribs? Should I use the knife with the 10 inch blade or the 4 inch blade. I presume it is the longer one.

I'm very much someone who respects all living creatures, but frankly the trachea is the place to aim for. That will cause it to gag as quickly as anything.
I wasn't suggesting that pitbulls be illegal (although the retirement community in Florida I visited had a 15 or 20 ... feet from my front door, and i normally walk past its spot to get to my car,and the little kids.

are training their dogs that the territory is safe from ... unhappy has little to do with it. FRAN rather that

FRAN
them semantically Actually, what you really want are dogs that ... want to have them. At the moment, one of the

I think even happy cats like to catch mice. So I don't think it is necessarily lack of happiness that causes some dogs to attack childen and adults.

So they get their happiness, their purpose to live, from biting people? That's not the sort of dog I want around me.

"What do you value in your bulldogs? Gripping, is it not? It's their nature? It's why you breed them? It's so with men. I will not give in because I oppose it. Not my pride, not my spleen, nor any other of my appetites, but *I* do. Is there in the midst of all this muscle no single sinew that serves no appetite of Norfolk's but is just Norfolk? Give that some exercise. Because, as you stand, you'll go before your Maker ill-conditioned. He'll think that somewhere along your pedigree, a *** got over the wall."
-, "A Man For All Seasons"
The problem with that is I'm afraid the knife will slip and I'll hit the child. This isn't going to be a very controlled experience.
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In alt.english.usage on Sun, 08 May 2005 16:59:59 -0700 "Bill Bonde ('by a commodius vicus of recirculation')"
I think even happy cats like to catch mice. So ... happiness that causes some dogs to attack childen and adults.

So they get their happiness, their purpose to live, from biting people?

I didn't say anything close to that.
I didn't say anything about why they bit people, only what was probably NOT a reason. I said that lack of happiness wasn't necessarily it. I can't prove it never is, but I gave as an example that happy cats still catch mice.
Even the prior poster, who seemed to imply that lack of happiness might be a cause, didn't say that the void was filled by biting people, didn't say that biting people made the dog happy, or that it was their purpose to live.
That's not the sort of dog I want around me.

I don't want that pitbull around either but it's not my dog.

s/ meirman

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say if you are posting the same response.
Born west of Pittsburgh Pa. 10 years
Indianapolis, 7 years
Chicago, 6 years
Brooklyn NY 12 years
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and I'm very much someone who respects all living creatures, ... That will cause it to gag as quickly as anything.

The problem with that is I'm afraid the knife will slip and I'll hit the child. This isn't going to be a very controlled experience.

Another strategy my partner suggested was to equip yourself with 4 foot of *** inch timber, or maybe a baseball bat (given you're an American) and place it over the dog in front of the shoulder at the throat. If it has a grip on the child it won't be able to let go. then as the dog goes down you rest your knees on the ends. Eventually the dog will go groggy and you cane use a broom handle or equivalent to prise open the jaws while the dog is still pinned. It will be too groggy for a moment or two to do anything, and the pressure at the jaw should abate from the time it starts choking.
If the dog doesn't have have a grip the four by two should serve to fend it off. Generally though, a dog who has suffered an experience like that will think twice about coming back for seconds, as they associate the smell of your body with the unpleasant experience (in this case of choking). And of course your next step would be straight to animal control or whatever the local equivalent of child protection was to see that the dog was humanely destroyed.
FRAN
or

The problem with that is I'm afraid the knife will slip and I'll hit the child. This isn't going to be a very controlled experience.

Another strategy my partner suggested was to equip yourself with 4 foot of *** inch timber, or maybe a baseball ... to animal control or whatever the local equivalent of child protection was to see that the dog was humanely destroyed.

You both watch too much television.
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or Another strategy my partner suggested was to equip yourself ... protection was to see that the dog was humanely destroyed.

You both watch too much television.

You're probably right, but I'd like to know how your inference follows either of our posts.
FRAN
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