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Ah - the silver threepenny bits. We used to have Christmas dinner at my Auntie's and the pudding always had ... And there always used to be one in *my* portion - what were the odds against THAT happening every year?

It's the fairies at work. They stop working for you when your age gets into double figures. I used to be extremely lucky at 'Housey, Housey' at fairgrounds in those days, but haven't won anything since then, even on Premium Bonds which I've held since their introduction. Has to be the fairies.
And my Auntie used to persuade me to swap the threepenny bit for a sixpence. Which I always did and I thought she was silly to let me.

I can't quite recall, but maybe they were already becoming rare in the 1940s. My parents took them back and substituted copper coins.

wrmst rgrds
Robin Bignall
Hertfordshire
England
I suppose the distinction is between works to which ... may read them should be accepted as evidence. Alan Jones

Not quite the take I got from it. I rather thought that what was meant was that the OED/MWCD11 and ... with the yolks of three new-laid eggs beat with it, some nutmeg; and if you please, three spoonfuls of Sack.

Isn't one of our problems with Pepys that we don't have his diaries in the original English he used? He wrote them in a version of shorthand and I believe his adaptation of Shelton's existing system included the insertion of 'dummy' letters (much as modern cryptographers do). The diaries weren't transcribed until 1825 and at that point they were heavily censored. Whether that censorship included paraphrase I don't know. I think more modern transcriptions are relatively uncensored but I don't know how far it is possible to convert the symbols into uncontestable spellings. I'm pretty sure common words like 'the' were represented by a single symbol, so whether Samuel's day job found him writing 'the'. 'thee' or 'ye' I dunno.
Maybe there was a phonetic symbol for 'flower' which SP regarded as pukka for use where 'flour' would usually be written?
John Dean
Oxford
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In the early 1940s it was a silver threepenny piece in my case. Looked very like a sixpence but smaller. ... still used a mouse for retrieval. Early in the 1900s, the Tooth Fairy made most of her appearances in France.

connu sous le nom de "Tooth fairy"
(littéralement "la fée des dents", plus connue en
France sous le nom de "petite souris")
(a character was) known under the name of the "Tooth fairy" (literally "the fairy of the teeth," better known in France under the name "the little mouse"))
The dictionary people should know

As in "should be told," I take it.
that the Cecil Adams crew has a piece on this; they found a play written in 1927, and a magazine article written in 1949.

Yes, good old Cecil. In part:
http://www.straightdope.com/mailbag/mtoothfairy.html

There's a tradition from 18th century France of a
"tooth mouse," likely based on a fairy tale, La
Bonne Petite Souris, in which a fairy changes into a mouse (or perhaps the other way around) to help the good queen defeat the evil king. The mouse hides
under a pillow to taunt the king, and punishes him by knocking out all his teeth. Perhaps this was the origin of the tooth fairy, but no one knows for
sure.
The tooth fairy as we now know her didn't make an
appearance until the early 1900s, ...
The Tooth Fairy, a three-act playlet for children by Esther Watkins Arnold, was published in 1927. Lee
Rogow's story "The Tooth Fairy" appeared in 1949 and seems to be the first children's story written about the tooth fairy. She became widely popular from the 1950s onward, with a veritable eruption of
children's books, cartoons, jokes, etc., including more focus on children's dental hygiene. Parents
cheerfully bought into the idea and the tooth fairy became part of family life...
It must have been hard to track down the Esther Watkins Arnold reference; there's no mention of her at ABEbooks or anywhere on the Web except for the title of another play, "King Quarrel and the beggar. A Christmas play in one act."

Best Donna Richoux
Not quite the take I got from it. I rather ... never heard before) to jump a shark on a motorcycle..."

So you think there is a sort of "class distinction" by which literary material or anything by persons of status such as Pepys are taken into account whereas even accessible plebeian sources are not?
while from Pepy's diary, the same lexicographers are perfectly willing ... some nutmeg; and if you please, three spoonfuls of Sack.

Isn't one of our problems with Pepys that we don't have his diaries in the original English he used? He ... there was a phonetic symbol for 'flower' which SP regarded as pukka for use where 'flour' would usually be written?

The flour/flower spellings seem to have been interchangeable only a luttle earlier than Pepys' time, and the term "flowers of sulphur" for the floury stuff used in gardening products and home remedies is still more or less current in BrE. NSOED says that they were once actually the same word, the finest part of meal being, as it were, its "flower" - the miller's utlimate achievement.
Alan Jones
while from Pepy's diary,

The man's last name was Pepys.

Indeed. The first chairman and CEO of PepysCo, wasn't he?
I do find three web pages that mention Pepys' name somewhere

Er . . .who's Peep?
So, what is the connection to Pepys? Did he write the parenthetical editorial notes, and if so, where? The connection that these web pages give is simply the Great Fire of London. Pepys wrote a history of the Great Fire.

Can an event that lasted only a couple of days have a "history" of it written? Wouldn't "account" (or perhaps, in ModMeejaEng, "eyewitness testimony") be more appropriate there?
Now, about Pepys'(s) name and its pronunciation: what went so terribly, terribly wrong, where and why? Anyone?

Ross Howard
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So, what is the connection to Pepys? Did he write ... of London. Pepys wrote a history of the Great Fire.

Can an event that lasted only a couple of days have a "history" of it written? Wouldn't "account" (or perhaps, in ModMeejaEng, "eyewitness testimony") be more appropriate there?

I don't personally know how much he wrote about the Fire. I thought to myself that he wrote at great length about the Plague, but it dawned on me just now that that that was Defoe I was thinking of.

Maybe old Peeps wrote "Walked along the Thames and saw my old friend Mr. Hedge. Great Fire destroyed the City from sunset until dawn. I believe Lady Darton will invite me to her garden party."
Now, about Pepys'(s) name and its pronunciation: what went so terribly, terribly wrong, where and why? Anyone?

The Oxford Dictionary of English Surnames says "See Pepin" where it has a long entry on "Pepin, Peppin, Pepys, Pippin, Pipon." Dated citations start with Pipin 1086 and go through Peaps 1671. The name was used in Old French and Old German and is traced to a root meaning "to tremble." There were Carolingian rulers Pepin d'Heristal and Pepin le Bref. "Pepis is a nominative form."

Best Donna Richoux
I don't personally know how much he wrote about the Fire. I thought to myself that he wrote at great ... Great Fire destroyed the City from sunset until dawn. I believe Lady Darton will invite me to her garden party."

Now, about Pepys'(s) name and its pronunciation: what went so terribly, terribly wrong, where and why? Anyone?

The Oxford Dictionary of English Surnames says "See Pepin" where it has a long entry on "Pepin, Peppin, Pepys, Pippin, ... a root meaning "to tremble." There were Carolingian rulers Pepin d'Heristal and Pepin le Bref. "Pepis is a nominative form."

Is Pepin le Bref the guy we know and love as Pepin the Short, son of Charles Martel? Either way we have Pepin the Elder to add to the list (founder of the Carolingian dynasty). Hell, they old French guys had Pepins up the ying yang.

John Dean
Oxford
I don't personally know how much he wrote about the ... d'Heristal and Pepin le Bref. "Pepis is a nominative form."

Is Pepin le Bref the guy we know and love as Pepin the Short, son of Charles Martel? Either way ... add to the list (founder of the Carolingian dynasty). Hell, they old French guys had Pepins up the ying yang.

No, no, no, he's the skunk in those Warner Brothers cartoons.

DC
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On Mon, 3 Jan 2005, In message
(Email Removed), Django Cat (Email Removed) writes
Is Pepin le Bref the guy we know and love ... they old French guys had Pepins up the ying yang.

No, no, no, he's the skunk in those Warner Brothers cartoons.

No, no, no, that's Pepe le Pew.

Mark Browne
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