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I would like to get some better understanding about the grammar.

For example,

1. We will concern ourselves in this chapter with selective ceilings, using rent controls as an illustration.

In this example, can I change it to 'We will concern ourselves in this chapter with selective ceilings, and we will use rent controls as an illustration.' ???

2. Many other possibilities exist, indicating that the demand for housing can and does respond very much like the demand for most goods and services.

Is it pretty much the same as ' Many other possibilities exist. The possibilities indicate that the demand for housing can and does respond very much like the demand for most goods and services.

My questions are

Can I devide one sentence with 'comma ' into two sentence as I did in the second example??

The second question is 'ing without comma'

Example

1.The demand for housing originates in households living in the economic system.

=households which live in the economic statem.?

2.There may be other curcumstances in which shareholders have power to make decisions binding the company.

= which bind the company????

It's relly hard for me to understand this. please give me better idea about this : ]
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Comments  
Hi, sjh. The system says this is your first post, but I seem to recall the name. Welcome again, anyway!
sjh3091 1. We will concern ourselves in this chapter with selective ceilings, using rent controls as an illustration.

In this example, can I change it to 'We will concern ourselves in this chapter with selective ceilings, and we will use rent controls as an illustration.' ??? Yes.

2. Many other possibilities exist, indicating that the demand for housing can and does respond very much like the demand for most goods and services.

Is it pretty much the same as ' Many other possibilities exist. The possibilities indicate that the demand for housing can and does respond very much like the demand for most goods and services. Exactly.

Can I divide one sentence with 'comma ' into two sentence as I did in the second example?? Your suggestion is really too general. In the example you cite, the present participle ("ing"-word) is followed by a "that"- clause which (absent the "that") can stand on its own as a complete sentence. Not every present participle will be this kind.

The second question is 'ing without comma'

Example

1.The demand for housing originates in households living in the economic system.

=households which live in the economic system?

This is correct. This type of "ing"- phrase can be converted to this type of "which"- clause whether or not a comma is involved, as long as you keep the comma when it's there. Look up "restrictive and non-restrictive." Without the comma, this is a restrictive relative clause. With the comma, it's non-restrictive.

2.There may be other curcumstances in which shareholders have power to make decisions binding the company.

= which bind the company?? Same as the previous example

It's really hard for me to understand this. Please give me better idea about this : ]
sjh3091
In this example, can I change it to 'We will concern ourselves in this chapter with selective ceilings, and we will use rent controls as an illustration.' ???

Yes
sjh3091
Is it pretty much the same as ' Many other possibilities exist. The possibilities indicate that the demand for housing can and does respond very much like the demand for most goods and services.

No. It's 'which indicate' where 'which' is a pronoun standing in for the entire clause, not just possibilities.
sjh3091Can I devide one sentence with 'comma ' into two sentence as I did in the second example??
The ing clause can usually be re-written using a finite verb and a subject, whether the subject be a relative pronoun or not is dependent on the sentence.
sjh3091The second question is 'ing without comma'
When an ing clause has no comma preceding it, it generally means the ing clause modifies the noun which is closest, not the subject of the sentence. Your example about households is an example of an ing clause being used in this way.

----

There are many ways an ing clause can be used. Usually it is used to shorten two clauses with the same subject. In such cases, the ing clause modifies the subject, which means it functions adjectivally, or it modifies the predicate, which means it functions adverbially.

Here are just a few ways the ing clause can be used.

I walked home and thought about what I had done.

I walked home, thinking about what I had done.

I went and saw my friend who was playing tennis.

I went and saw my friend playing tennis.

The economic crisis scared many, which caused people to stop spending.

The ecomoic crisis scared many, causing people to stop spending.

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2. Many other possibilities exist, indicating that the demand for housing can and does respond very much like the demand for most goods and services.
English 1b3
sjh3091 Is it pretty much the same as ' Many other possibilities exist. The possibilities indicate that the demand for housing can and does respond very much like the demand for most goods and services.
No. It's 'which indicate' where 'which' is a pronoun standing in for the entire clause, not just possibilities. In the OP's example, with the comma, "which" stands for the whole clause. Without the comma, it stands for "possibilities."
English is right. You'd have to say, "The fact that the possibilities exist indicates that etc."

Hi, Avangi

I'd like to bring something to your attention. Examining various sites discussing the ing clause, I noticed that there is little agreement about how the constructions should be punctuated.

I notice you believe that the restrictiveness of the ing clause determines whether a comma is used, but I follow a different approach, rule, or whatever else you'd like to call it.

I'll try find one of the many links if you like.

Here is my approach. A few weak examples follow.

1.Use a comma when the ing clause modifies the subject:

I ran around the block, dodging lamp posts and pedestrians along the way.

2. Do not use a comma when the ing clause modifies another noun or pronoun within the sentence:

I saw the man living in the house next door to me.

3.Use a comma when the ing clause modifies the entire predicate, or any verb phrase (functions adverbially):

The killings in the large state of Tennessee injected fear into the millions living there, causing some of the residents to flea.

This one above has 2 ing clauses:

The first has no comma (see rule 2).

The second uses commas as they modify the predicate.

There is more disagreement about the labelling of some ing clauses also. Is the sentence i provided under rule 1 an adverbial or adjectival ing clause; in other words, does it modify the subject or the predicate... You could argue either way.
Thank you, English. I may have to change my thinking! Emotion: smile - A.
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Hi English,

I don't disgree with the guidelines for puctuation in your last post.

Howver, possibly you might find it interesting to think about them in this way. A comma in writing represents a brief pause in speech. The rules for punctuation are an attempt to capture how we speak. So, think about why you would pause or not pause if you spoke each of the sentences you offer as examples.

I think this experiment may get you a little closer to how native speakers construct their speech. When they speak, they are not thinking consciously about all these grammar terms, and in fact most native speakers don't know all these grammar terms. But they know how to express the different meanings.

Best wishes, Clive
English 1b3 I notice you believe that the restrictiveness of the ing clause determines whether a comma is used, but I follow a different approach, rule, or whatever else you'd like to call it.
I can't dispute what you've observed, but in terms of my own thinking, this puts the cart before the horse.
What I believe is that the presence of the comma determines the restrictiveness of the clause.
I suspect there are "ing"- clauses in which restrictiveness or the lack thereof is not an issue.

I look forward to studying your examples, and comparing them with the models which I have only "relatively" recently stashed in my brain.
As Clive points out, the connection between terminology and practice can be a little cloudy in the mind of a non-student. Emotion: smile
Thanks everyone indeed. That helped me a lot. Now I have some idea about the use of comma Emotion: smile

But, I still dont understand a little bit.

'Many other possibilities exist, indicating that the demand for housing can and does respond very much like the demand for most goods and services.'

English said 'indicating' doesn't only modify possibilities, but entire sentence so it can be changed to ',which indicates'. And if it is possible to change ',which indicates' to ' ,indicating' , then how can I figure out what 'indicating' modifies?? It could be either possibilitire and the entire sentence.

Am I just meant to get it from the context???

My quesion is very messy. I tried to put it more clearly, but this is the best I could write.

I hope one of you guys can understand.
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