Hello everyone.

Is "Despite that S + V..., S + V ...." acceptable?

I know that without 'that' it's obviously incorrect.

In other words, would you accept the following sentence as standard?

ex) Despite that you still owe me $100, I am willing to lend you another $100.
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Hello Komountain

It seems non-standard to me. I would always say "despite the fact that".

But it wouldn't surprise me if "despite that S V" were the older form.


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As Mr. P. says, the usual pattern is "despite the fact that ...".
Also possible is "in spite of the fact that ...".

Another phrasing (less used) is "Despite your still owing me $100, I am willing ...".

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Hi MrP and CJ.

The reason I asked this question was that I had a small argument over the usage of 'despite' with my nephew who is currently studying English with native speakers. He argued that his teachers had said the above pattern in question was not only correct but also in use, but I insisted that the pattern was not correct, as far as modern English is concerned. I am glad you both are on my side.
Hello guys

KM's question is interesting. "Despite" demands a noun as its object. But 'noun wh-clauses' can follow "despite". For example,
(EX) Despite what people say about us, we are happy now.
(EX) You will buy their products despite how you feel about the makers.
(EX) We ought to be resolute against terrorism despite who is President.
Furthermore, "despite which [relative]" can be used as follows.
(EX) They were nice to her, despite which she disdained them.
But despite these usages, that-clauses cannot follow "despite" without help of "the fact". I have long thought why this is so. I cannot still get the conclusion but I feel it would be because 'that noun-clauses' are weak in 'noun-ness' despite the fact that 'that clauses' are used as a perfect noun clause when they stand as a sentential subjects like in the example :"To study about 'despite' now is a good idea."

Hi Paco!

I'm not sure I understand what you mean. Your example "To study about 'despite' now is a good idea", doesn't include a "that clause", or at least, that's the way I see it.

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Hi Mara

Aha!You are right. I again committed a stupidity. I should have written "That I study about 'despite' now is a good idea".

I would never use the cliche that seems to be floating around "the fact that" which is completely unnecessary and make you appear like an amateur.
AnonymousI would never use the cliche that seems to be floating around "the fact that" which is completely unnecessary and make you appear like an amateur.
This is an old thread (2005). Perhaps your search brought you into the middle of it. (That often happens.)
You might benefit from reading the thread in its entirety.

Are you suggesting we use "Despite that" instead of "Despite the fact that"? --- or "Despite" alone?

Rgdz, - A.
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