The (symbols) commonly used at that time were >-> for door open and

-> for close door

It was the opposite of intuitive, so people seeing someone rushing for the lift would pres the door close button... Eventually lift manufactures twiggfed, and changed the symbols so something more intuitive. ... But that confused people (still) further ...

I certainly don't understand Steve's point. I think every version of the symbols I've seen, including the ones shown above, is exactly as intuitive as the others the problem is just that it takes longer to "read" a group of symbols (particularly when they are presented with low contrast as is so common) and pick out the right one than it does for the doors to close, which isn't true for labels in words.

They also put them at the bottom of the panel, at about waist height.

In my experience that's always been the normal place.

Mark Brader > "This is just the result of someone sitting down before Toronto > a computer and carefully removing his head first. (Email Removed) > It's a phenomenon which is becoming more and more common."

The one commonly used at that time were >-> for door open and

-> for close door

It was the opposite of intuitive

Those seem fairly intuitive to me: the arrows (which have both "heads" and "sticks") show which way the door edges will move when you press the button. The ones I commonly see are like these, only with closed triangles instead of open:

<>> for door open, and

The triangles aren't obviously arrows, because they don't have "sticks"; to me they look like stylized perspective drawings of normal hinged double doors, so the "open" button looks like closed doors, and the "close" button looks like wide open doors. But since every passenger elevator I've ever ridden in has obstruction sensors on the doors, I just use my hand to hold the door open, which is a fairly natural reflex anyway. Sometimes with really slow-closing doors I screw myself by punching the "open" button just as they begin closing.

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Somewhere I used to have a book called "design for the real world" by Victor someone or other.

Papanek.

He called on Detroit to mend its wasteful ways and fit its cars with bumpers (fenders) made of empty beer cans nailed to planks.

(Say, has anyone noticed that Trevor Bayliss, inventor of the clockwork radio, is the spitting image of Paul Raymond of Raymond's Revue Bar?)

Mickwick

The (symbols) commonly used at that time were >-> for ... rushing for the lift would pres the door close button...

I certainly don't understand Steve's point. I think every version of the symbols I've seen, including the ones shown above, ... pick out the right one than it does for the doors to close, which isn't true for labels in words.

If Steve saw it as I do, the immediate dominants are

and

which say 'closed doors' and 'open doors' respectively.

Paul

In bocca al Lupo!

Most double-sided elevators that I've used have floor buttons labeled "2" and "2R", for example.

Agreed. An exception is those where, although there are two sets of doors, only one is used at any particular floor; these need only the same controls that a normal elevator would have.

True. Then it may be just a question of how to number the floors. I used to use a freight elevator that was sort of shared between two buildings. The ground floor was the same on both sides, but the rest of the floors weren't, so the numbering had to be a bit bizarre to be consistent with both buildings.

Or on both ends (see below).

so the "open" button is needed if you make the wrong choice...

Not really; you can press 2 or 2R while the elevator is stopped at 2. (I don't say that this always works, but I would expect it to.)

The double-door elevator I'm most familiar with didn't work that way; you had to press the "door open" button (I don't recall how it was labeled) to open the door opposite to the one you selected. But I don't know if that's typical.

That elevator was particularly confusing because there was no obvious way to tell which was the front or the rear. It had identical control panels on opposite ends of the car, and both doors opened onto the same hallway at each floor, but around the corner from each other. I never understood why they used the double-door type at all maybe just to confuse people.

Ray Heindl

(remove the Xs to reply)

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If Steve saw it as I do, the immediate dominants are and which say 'closed doors' and 'open doors' respectively.

Ah! That makes sense. Thanks. Of course, how dominant it was it would depend on the actual graphic.

Mark Brader, Toronto "'Run me,' Alice?" (Email Removed) Tom Neff

The (symbols) commonly used at that time were >-> for ... more intuitive. ... But that confused people (still) further ...

I certainly don't understand Steve's point. I think every version of the symbols I've seen, including the ones shown above, ... pick out the right one than it does for the doors to close, which isn't true for labels in words.

The point is that the two sets of symbols show two different things.

For the "door open", one set showed the present state of the doors, which was shut, with arrows to open then, thus >->. The other showed the

**desired**state of the doors, thus >>. The door shut symbols were >-> and ->>><-.

And working them out therefore takes much longer.

They also put them at the bottom of the panel, at about waist height.

In my experience that's always been the normal place.

Steve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa

http://www.geocities.com/Athens/7734/stevesig.htm

E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk

If Steve saw it as I do, the immediate dominants are and which say 'closed doors' and 'open doors' respectively.

and it only makes sense to open closed doors and to close open doors - you can't open an open door or close a closed one.

(incidentally, the convention in at least some elevators at purdue is to have one button for open door, and closing a door is accomplished by hitting a floor button)

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If Steve saw it as I do, the immediate dominants are and which say 'closed doors' and 'open doors' respectively.

and it only makes sense to open closed doors and to close open doors - you can't open an open door or close a closed one.

Well, yes.

I don't think that is in question.

The question is whether the symbol represents the present state of the doors or the desired state after pushing the button.

Steve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa

http://www.geocities.com/Athens/7734/stevesig.htm

E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk

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