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If Steve saw it as I do, the immediate dominants are and which say 'closed doors' and 'open doors' respectively.

and it only makes sense to open closed doors and to close open doors - you can't open an open door or close a closed one.

Well, yes.
I don't think that is in question.
The question is whether the symbol represents the present state of the doors or the desired state after pushing the button.

Steve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/7734/stevesig.htm
E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk
The (symbols) commonly used at that time were >-> for ... more intuitive. ... But that confused people (still) further ...

I certainly don't understand Steve's point. I think every version of the symbols I've seen, including the ones shown above, ... pick out the right one than it does for the doors to close, which isn't true for labels in words.

The point is that the two sets of symbols show two different things.

For the "door open", one set showed the present state of the doors, which was shut, with arrows to open then, thus >->. The other showed the desired state of the doors, thus >>. The door shut symbols were >-> and ->>><-.
And working them out therefore takes much longer.
They also put them at the bottom of the panel, at about waist height.

In my experience that's always been the normal place.

Steve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/7734/stevesig.htm
E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk
Site Hint: Check out our list of pronunciation videos.
If Steve saw it as I do, the immediate dominants are and which say 'closed doors' and 'open doors' respectively.

and it only makes sense to open closed doors and to close open doors - you can't open an open door or close a closed one.

Well, yes.
I don't think that is in question.
The question is whether the symbol represents the present state of the doors or the desired state after pushing the button.

Steve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/7734/stevesig.htm
E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk
If Steve saw it as I do, the immediate dominants are and which say 'closed doors' and 'open doors' respectively.

and it only makes sense to open closed doors and to close open doors - you can't open an open door or close a closed one.

Well, yes.
I don't think that is in question.
The question is whether the symbol represents the present state of the doors or the desired state after pushing the button.

Steve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/7734/stevesig.htm
E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk
If Steve saw it as I do, the immediate dominants are and which say 'closed doors' and 'open doors' respectively.

and it only makes sense to open closed doors and to close open doors - you can't open an open door or close a closed one.

Well, yes.
I don't think that is in question.
The question is whether the symbol represents the present state of the doors or the desired state after pushing the button.

Steve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/7734/stevesig.htm
E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk
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and it only makes sense to open closed doors and ... can't open an open door or close a closed one.

Well, yes. I don't think that is in question. The question is whether the symbol represents the present state of the doors or the desired state after pushing the button.

Other people are complaining about messages being canceled or inaccessible, but I'm getting the opposite I got this particular message five, count 'em, five times. Every message of yours for the last couple of days is coming in multiples, Steve. Only yours.

It's probably sunspots.

Best Donna Richoux
Other people are complaining about messages being canceled or inaccessible, but I'm getting the opposite I got this particular ... Every message of yours for the last couple of days is coming in multiples, Steve. Only yours. It's probably sunspots.

I, too, see multiple copies of Steve's messages today.
Skitt (in Hayward, California)
www.geocities.com/opus731/
Well, yes. I don't think that is in question. The ... the doors or the desired state after pushing the button.

Other people are complaining about messages being canceled or inaccessible, but I'm getting the opposite I got this particular ... Every message of yours for the last couple of days is coming in multiples, Steve. Only yours. It's probably sunspots.

Or buggy newsposting software interpreting "pushing the button." at the end of the post as a command.

Paul
In bocca al Lupo!
Students: Are you brave enough to let our tutors analyse your pronunciation?
. . . which seems a good time to mention a wonderful book called 'The Design of Everyday Things' (can't remember author's name at present, apologies) which discusses topics like this. Other examples given are doors whose design makes you think you should push/pull when they function as pull/push and one of my favourites the number of ways, most of them completely idiotic, in which one can map a diagram of a hob (stove top, for USAns) to the dials or buttons or other controls which operate each of its burners.
And as for the lifts where I work I go to several different buildings in the course of any given week and in each one the lift controls operate differently. In one building the controls are so jumbled that even finding the button to push to call the lift is virtually impossible, until one has already fruitlessly pressed non-responsive things that look like buttons but turn out to be the controls for emergency access, light switches and the like. If these designs are good for anything, it's for inducing conversation among embarrassed colleagues about the idiocy of these designs and possibly of ourselves.
And finally, no lift discussion would be complete without mention of a study I read somewhere once (a newspaper in Hong Kong in the mid-1990s AFAIR) on how long people in various cities wait before pressing the 'door close' button. The statistics that stuck in my mind were something like: London, 30 seconds; New York City, 29 seconds; Hong Kong, 1 second. I may be misremembering but I'm not making it up. And if you look at the buttons there it's true: 'door close' is usually worn off, while 'door open' is virgin.
So the buttons there must be much more clearly labelled than those elsewhere, we conclude.
cheers,
Stephanie
who should be taking the stairs more anyway
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