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I was very pleased with *Do You Speak American?* Many things we have discussed in these newsgroups were mentioned. The ... code-switching being taught. Heck, it's the first time I've seen it, I think, although I've read about it often enough.

One thing that was interesting usagewise about the "Academic English Mastery" segment was how the teacher used "code-switch" transitively (e.g., "Code-switch this sentence!"). In academic literature I've only seen the intransitive form (e.g., "Students know how to code-switch").

Googling, I find one example of transitive "code-switch"... in a speech by none other than Robert MacNeil ("A Fresh Look at Black English"):

http://www.coro.org/coro centers/sf/documents/MacNeil Keynote.pdf

MacNeil quotes the teacher featured in "DYSA?" ("And, Maiso, how do you code-switch it into Mainstream American English?"). So this may simply be an idiosyncrasy of the teacher rather than an emergent new usage.
I tell you, I tended to drift off there, though ... where Minneapolis Ray addressed that important question. But I digress.

My goodness there are a lot of us Durkins around. Not that I am related to any any more. Well, a brother in Twin Cities and a cousin outside Detroit. None of us with male offspring to carry on the name.

And still more pop up. Pat Durkin built concrete ships for the WWII war effort. Pat Durkin is the SAS SAS Country Manager for Ireland. Pat Durkin leads nature walks for Birdwatch Ireland. And a gift of $200,000 by Pat Durkin '60 will launch the Fund for Irish Studies (Princeton University).

Best Donna Richoux
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My goodness there are a lot of us Durkins around. Not that I am related to any any more. Well, a brother in Twin Cities

See! "Twin Cities" sans article in the wild.

Steny '08!
My goodness there are a lot of us Durkins around. Not that I amrelated to any any more. Well, a brother in Twin Cities

See! "Twin Cities" sans article in the wild.

My bad. The title is not used without the "the" in common parlance. At least, as far as I know. And I don't consider AUE "the wild".

My god, Areff! (please don't take that personally!) How many different things are you taking surveys on!
I suppose I think that vocabulary and usage standards, if ... But those are your particular games and challenges to yourself.

( I mean your desire to switch punctuation styles when switching to French or Esperanto. )Are you a teacher of the respective styles? Do you teach
composition for publication in US English? At what level?

These questions are asked in all seriousness.
Then I would expect that those particular standards, being part ... in AUE without your explaining where you are coming from.

I honor the seriousness with which you approach your trade (if your trade it be).
As far as I can see, what you have written above constitutes a gratuitous insult.

I beg you to read my interspersed comments and to reinterpret what I have written before and again today not as insults, but as serious comments and questions.
I thought you wanted a personal history of how I came to use standard American practice, and I tried to give you that as well as I could withthe materials at hand.

Yes. And to tell the truth, your memory of how you learned "the standard American practice" is as arbitrary and vague as the way I learned my "non-system", with the possible exception that you probably were and are much more aware of details than I. If in the years since you first learned your practice you have met many more people who accept and enforce the ideas you learned, then I expect you can consider yourself (and many others can consider you) an expert. I accept only that there is a force in the majority. OK.
Instead, you wanted proof from me that the practice I advocate *is* the standard American practice.

Since we don't have any established "Royal Academy", or, as far as I know, any federal office or commission of standards to make such rules, even about publishing practices, I don't accept any such "standard American practice". I don't have to prove the non-existence. I make no claims about publishing standards, beyond requesting that that caveat be expressed when discussing the position of comma and period in the terminal position within quotation marks. To correct people in these newsgroups (AEU and AUE), by insisting that the US has some kind of "standard" beyond commonality of use in some publications, or that informal writing such as that in which we USans indulge here should be done in certain standard ways is to mislead. ( I suspect that that is a bad sentence. Sorry.)
Since that is the case, it is your* responsibility to prove that I do *not* use standard American practice, *because ... commas and closing question mark is concerned, acknowledges that the system I have been discussing *is the standard American system.

I don't care about publishers' standards (if they exist, and I don't deny their existence). I just don't think that commenting upon private contributors' styles in these newsgroups with an eye to correcting and standardizing their punctuation according to some proposed or supposed publishers' standards is a useful practice, unless the "destined for publication" is mentioned by the contributor or the responder. (And I don't accuse you of doing such correcting.)
As for the so-called games I play, all I intend to do is write text in ASCII which could, in ... (they usually write book titles with no indication of italicization, for example) but my practice is in no way a "game."

Again, I had no intention of trivializing your contributions. I had thought I was recognizing them. As to the reference to ASCII, as with your comments about QuoteFix above, insofar as they deal with your particular choices and ideas about possible uses of your text, I have no comment to make.

I hope you accept these comments as an apology for any hurt my words have caused you. I hold you and your opinions in great, though non-conforming, regard.
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Since we don't have any established "Royal Academy", or, as far as I know, any federal office or commission of ... should be done in certain standard ways is to mislead. ( I suspect that that is a bad sentence. Sorry.)

You got it the wrong way round. It started with Don Groves criticizing Raymond's spelling; that it is standard American practice was Ray's defense (or rebuff).

Oliver C.
Since we don't have any established "Royal Academy", or, as ... ( I suspect that that is a bad sentence. Sorry.)

You got it the wrong way round. It started with Don Groves criticizing Raymond's spelling; that it is standard American practice was Ray's defense (or rebuff).

I must have missed the spelling thing. In this thread, the disagreement started, IIRC, over a comma inside quotation marks that Don felt didn't belong there. And I think Ray's "standard" was in reference to punctuation within quotation marks (in the US).
Maria Conlon
( I mean your desire to switch punctuation styles when switching to French or Esperanto. )Are you a teacher of the respective styles? Do you teach These questions are asked in all seriousness.

I can't see what possible relevance it has to the discussion, but, as an act of good faith, I'll answer: No, I am not a teacher of the respective styles, nor do I teach composition for publication in US English.

It is irrelevant to the discussion because it in no way affects whether I am correct on the matter of the respective styles, any more than you need to know anything whatsoever about me in order to evaluate my statement that "favourite" is the British style of spelling what Americans refer to as "favorite."
I'm not teaching something "to the mass participants in AUE," since they already know it!
I honor the seriousness with which you approach your trade (if your trade it be).

The type of standard you are denigrating is stronger than any possible language academy standard. Look at what has happened in France with the "nouvelle orthographie." It has pretty much been a bust.
Since that is the case, it is your* responsibility to ... system I have been discussing *is the standard American system.

I don't care about publishers' standards (if they exist, and I don't deny their existence). I just don't think that ... for publication" is mentioned by the contributor or the responder. (And I don't accuse you of doing such correcting.)

On the subject of periods and commas inside ending quotation marks, I certainly have not been correcting anyone. I was the one who was corrected for having used what did, in fact, follow standard American practice.
As for the so-called games I play, all I intend ... for example) but my practice is in no way a "game."

Again, I had no intention of trivializing your contributions. I had thought I was recognizing them. As to the reference ... apology for any hurt my words have caused you. I hold you and your opinions in great, though non-conforming, regard.

I was greatly annoyed by the "games" comment. I accept your apology, however.
Now that I think of it, I must have been made aware of the difference in French and American punctuation styles since the very first year I began to learn French. I have a very good teacher of French, who insisted we use the French quotation marks ( « », for those who can read them). It is inconceivable to me that he would have permitted us to follow the American style on the matter of putting periods and commas within ending quotation marks. So my Usenet practice is simply a continuation of what I have always been doing when writing French.

Raymond S. Wise
Minneapolis, Minnesota USA
E-mail: mplsray @ yahoo . com
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Since we don't have any established "Royal Academy", or, as ... ( I suspect that that is a bad sentence. Sorry.)

You got it the wrong way round. It started with Don Groves criticizing Raymond's spelling; that it is standard American practice was Ray's defense (or rebuff).

Punctuation, not spelling. And I have since retracted and apologized.

dg (domain=ccwebster)
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