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Is the third way common in Briteng as well?

It is and it isn't. "Do you have an appointment?" sounds quite normal to me; "Do you have any fetta?" ... I am guessing the "Do...have" questions are slightly more formal and are less likely to be used in common speech.

"Common speech" is not my habitual mode of locution :-)
John Briggs
One of the sad consequences of removing the 11-plus was that it reduced the number of kids from working class ... a measure of academic ability, it was less flawed than what it was replaced by: the judgement of school teachers.

That's actually a myth. The chances of a working class child passing the 11-plus and going to university were always small anyway, and no greater than the chances of a working class child educated at a comprehensive going to university.
One of the reason why the proportion of working class children going to university might appear to be going down is that the proportion of people who are working class, in the sense of engaged in manual occupations, is going down.
These days, anyone who has the ability to go to university, and plenty who don't gets to go. There has been a huge expansion of the number of university places. As an admissions tutor in a reasonably respected university institution, every year I deal with hundreds of applications from students from comprehensive schools, including in my case many from the rougher and poorer inner city comprehensive schools (which the right-wing press like to pretend are what all comprehensive schools are like).

I went to a comprehensive school myself from a working class background, having passed the 11-plus but having decided not to go to the grammar school that offered me a place. I went on to get top A-levels and a university place. I don't think I was held back at all by not going to a grammar school.
Matthew Huntbach
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What could they have said, instead?

do(es) not

Always, even in the distant past?
Bye, FB

Io ho deciso di rifiutarmi di vederlo: Ettore con la faccia di Eric Banana mi fa venire i conati.
(commento sul film "Troy" su it.fan.scrittori.tolkien)
"Polytechnic" seems a rare term in Britain now. The only ... naming problem because "Cambridge" and "East Anglia" were already taken.

Although a "polytechnic" in Britain was always supposed to be a different sort of institution that a university - one ... a rare term in Britain is that there is now no longer such an institution, they are all legally universities.

We are only 100 years behind Germany - all the German polytechnics were made universities by Kaiser Wilhelm II in the 1890s. They each gave him an honorary degree :-)

John Briggs
Steve Hayes wrote on 10 Aug 2004:

I might add another usage question. How many native anglophones feel that "at school" is good usage here?[/nq]I did not think it the least bit odd when I first read it, although in most circumstances I would say "in school". Trying to come up with a reason for choosing between "at" or "in", I have tentatively concluded that it is all in the speaker's head, and revolves around whether the speaker's perspective focuses on place or on time. For me, "in school" abbreviates "when I was in school". "At school" is more from the perspective of "this sort of emphasis only occurred in the classroom, nowhere else." "At school" could also distinguish an English teacher employed by the school system from a private tutor who conducted training in English outside the classroom, but here it feels to me more as if the writer's focus is on the place where this usage idiosyncrasy took place, rather than on the period of her life during which it occurred.
Gary Williams
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The answer is no. Here's a rough homespun guide. Don't take it to be "The Truth", it's just to give you an idea of the range of forms used.

Most, most kind of you. Thank you.
Notice that formal forms are often shorter than colloquial forms.

Yes. I often wonder why the formal forms are the shorter, the apparently simpler ones.
What I've called "gotless colloquial" are those forms that might be used by older or posher natives, say, or those from more conservative linguistic areas.

I see you always have "to have" conjugated as an ordinary verb in formal forms (when it means "possess"). Is it possible to write "I haven't a clue", "I haven't the slightest idea" and, say, "I don't have this book" in the same text?
Bye, FB

"Nasalization is just a part of life"
(Joey DoWop Dee on it.cultura.linguistica.inglese)
When I was at school (1950s) we were not allowed to use any form of 'get' in writing in English lessons. In those days, the alternatives didn't seem as clumsy as they would today.

How were you supposed to write, say, "I haven't got it/I don't have it" and "Have you got time?"? These very sentences, I mean. Perhaps you were allowed to use do-forms of "to have"? Otherwise I don't think you were supposed to write "I haven't it" and "Have you... time?". You know, I'm very keen on this kind of stuff.
Of course, we weren't allowed to use contractions like "can't" or "don't" either, whereas today things have changed - I would still prefer to use "cannot" or "do not" in formal writing, but it depends exactly on how formal the writing is.

Thank you for your advice.
Bye, FB

L'importante è che risplenda tu, sola primadonna e immarcescibile leggenda del tuo pianerottolo.
(Lucangel su it.cultura.libri)
I have heard that it was popularised in the UK by Australian TV soaps.

I suppose it's consistent with "poly" for polytechnic. It's surprising that we didn't generally abbreviate the five-syllable "university" (apart from"varsity" ... few in number and easily identified by name. "He's at York" (etc) would be taken to refer to the university.

But if you were at a town or city with both a university and a polytechnic, you had to distinguish. I was a student in Leeds, 1972-75, with friends at both institutions, and we regularly used the terms "the poly" and "the uni" as distinguishing abbreviations. I guess that is rather different from saying "I am at uni" as an answer to "what do you do?", though. I honestly can't remember whether or not I may have said that. Possibly not.

Mike M
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Notice that formal forms are often shorter than colloquial forms.

Yes. I often wonder why the formal forms are the shorter, the apparently simpler ones.

Formal forms are usually preservation of forms that have dropped out of use otherwise, in other words a resistance to language change.

There seem to be two different forces in language change. One does lead to shortening as forms are slurred in speech. The other, however, leads to lengthening as extra words are introduced in order to create emphasis or avoid mishearing.
What I've called "gotless colloquial" are those forms that might be used by older or posher natives, say, or those from more conservative linguistic areas.

I see you always have "to have" conjugated as an ordinary verb in formal forms (when it means "possess"). Is it possible to write "I haven't a clue", "I haven't the slightest idea" and, say, "I don't have this book" in the same text?

Yes. "I haven't a clue" seems to be a stock phrase which preserves a form that otherwise now sounds over-formal.
Matthew Huntbach
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