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As far as I can tell there is not even a notional prospect that her grades might suffer in some ... 40 minutes with some advocacy on her side. Notionally, she got an advantage, though in practice it made no difference.

All right, I'm glad to hear she got a second chance. Thanks for this. If the rest of her work didn't justify the ending, fine you two have seen the whole thing, and the rest of us haven't.
As to me making fun of her, neither you or anyone can know who she is. Nobody who knows her ... if they find this posting, they won't know whose it is. So her self-esteem and prospects ought to be unaffected.

I know, but even then... Suppose a teacher reads essays to the class, without identification, and tears apart one as a bad example. A common "educational" technique, I suppose. Don't you think the one whose paper it is is actually dying of shame, as opposed to open-mindedly listening to these criticisms as positive influences to her writing? I don't have any faith in humiliation and fear as positive eductional forces. (I'm not saying you or your husband do you and I are just speculating about the borderline, here.)
We respect the privacy of the doctor-patient relationship, and the lawyer-client relationship. Since an essential part of learning something new is looking stupid and making mistakes, I think we need to grant a considerable degree of protection to the classroom as a safe space in which to err.
I don't know what ethical solutions may have already been worked out. Do teachers ever say to their students anything like, "From time to time I engage in professional discussions on the nature of writing and effective education; I would like permission to use excerpts from your work, without identification, as examples"? Or do they just go ahead and use those examples as if they had unquestioned right to reprint them? Is there a fine-print footnote in the college catalog that says "Your writing belongs to us"?
On the other hand, we have all had an opportunity to consider the issues you, I and others have raised in the course of this discussion,

Yes, I'm glad we had this chance. No real harm was done.
which is surely a measurable public good. You may yet convince me that I erred, and that too will be a good, because if so, all of us may be less inclined to repeat my "stupidity".

It sounds as if Joanne is still hurting from her previous experience. Pain can last for ages. Without a doubt, people can remember being humiliated by teachers fifty, sixty, seventy years ago.

Best wishes Donna Richoux
You're acting as if you make no assumptions, and as if making assumptions is bad. I'm sorry, those positions appear nonsensical to me, and I doubt we'll get anywhere further in this conversation. it's been nice talking to you.

Best Donna Richoux
Students: We have free audio pronunciation exercises.
Of course not. But that doesn't make a difference. Concluding ... demonstrated approach to discourse in this thread, at least.

You're acting as if you make no assumptions,

Not at all, Donna. We all make assumptions. If we didn't, we couldn't live and learn.
and as if making assumptions is bad.

It all depends on what assumptions one makes and in what context. I don't think that's a difficult concept to wrap your head around. I don't think anything is inherently good or bad, including assumptions.
I'm sorry, those positions appear nonsensical to me,

Srawpersons are always nonsensical.
and I doubt we'll get anywhere further in this conversation.

Not if you want to talk about strawpersons, we won't.
it's been nice talking to you.

Somehow ("nan-to-naku" in Japanese) I don't think you're being honest here.

Franke: EFL teacher & medical editor
For email, replace numbers with English alphabet.
That's certainly a possibility in some circumstances, but if you look at the precise wording:
"Despite its lack of definition, globalisation, has quite a great impact on society ..."
It's a very big stretch to interpret "impact on society" as how people think about it.
and then:
"(globalisation's) ramifications are widespread, and many of them are caused by the improper use of the term".
I'm not exactly sure what a ramification is here, but it doesn't sound like she's saying the spread of globalisation is likely to make globalisation unpopular if people market it poorly.

That might be what she's saying but at the very least the context which determines what people think ramifications of globalisation are tends to locate them in other desirable or undesirable social patterns. The preferred reading here makes this passage look very odd, and the confusion seems amusing.

And I wouldn't think of it.

Ta ...
Fran
Though not one of mine. Ever.
Don't you think the one whose paper it is is actually dying of shame, as opposed to open-mindedly listening to these criticisms as positive influences to her writing? I don't have any faith in humiliation and fear as positive eductional forces.

Nor I - as I said to someone else in another NG just recently, curiously enough.
(I'm not saying you or your husband do you and I are just speculating about the borderline, here.) We ... we need to grant a considerable degree of protection to the classroom as a safe space in which to err.

I can't disagree there.
I don't know what ethical solutions may have already been worked out. Do teachers ever say to their students anything ... nature of writing and effective education; I would like permission to use excerpts from your work, without identification, as examples"?

I don't. Partly for the reasons above.
Or do they just go ahead and use those examples as if they had unquestioned right to reprint them? Is there a fine-print footnote in the college catalog that says "Your writing belongs to us"?

Not as far as I know, but as I said to Joanne, I consider harm and benefit. Here the harm seemed manifestly trivial and improbable and the benefit substantial.

Undoubtedly. But some pain is useful too, though I always try to avoid inflicting it.
Best wishes Donna Richoux

And to you.
Fran
Site Hint: Check out our list of pronunciation videos.

- It highlights the vacuousness, tautologicality (?), and internal contradictions of the writing.

Tautologism?

I you believe the US diccies, "tautology" will serve. "Tautologies" is even better.
Or is that too easy?

Bob Lieblich
A believer
I haven't read any of the postings in this thread, but the subject line caught my eye, and I would ... line seems to indicate, I strongly suspect that most of the examples have been contrived by teachers or other non-students.

Good guess, Bob, but wrong.

Another Bob
Without a doubt, people can remember being humiliated by teachers fifty, sixty, seventy years ago.

It's much more fun remembering the times we humiliated the teachers fifty and more years ago. I still recall the time ...

Well, no, let's not embarrass poor Miss Thistlebottom yet again.

Bob Lieblich
Mum
Students: Are you brave enough to let our tutors analyse your pronunciation?
Without a doubt, people can remember being humiliated by teachers fifty, sixty, seventy years ago.

It's much more fun remembering the times we humiliated the teachers fifty and more years ago. I still recall the time ...

It is a stange mix of fun and of guilt.
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