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Starting July 20th, 1918, "German Valley" lost its name. Now, I realize that's not the name of a person, but it is a name change because of WWI and anti-German sentiment.

I am quite sure that there were far more name changes during the 1914-18 War than in the second World War. There is a whole area of South Australia that changed German place names for French ones at that time, but I have met people in Britain and Australia whose families did this - some of them changed them back again later on. However, I am still unconvinced with regard to Huffman and Eisenhower - the change is just not big enough.
Rob Bannister
dialect but not that Huffman/scufflaw bit).

I had sort of hoped that someone might have commented on "scofflaw" earlier on. In the end, I had to look it up and was most disappointed to discover it wasn't some folksy kind of foodstuff. Now I want to know why people in Wisconsin need a word like that in their everyday conversation.

Rob Bannister
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Having had discussions here recently (on AUE) about some vowel sounds, I think we (well, I) have more or less ... all Wisconsinites. But I don't shorten the "o" into the "u" of "cup", in either of your examples.

From a non-American perspective, I frequently hear a quickly-spoken American "o" as being more like "u" than "a". So, for example, "hot" ought to sound somewhere between "haht" and "hairt"* to me, but if spoken quickly can sound like "hut". Now, this is matching it to my dialect; I'm sort of surprised that another American would have that reaction.
* I'm trying to avoid IPA, so forget the "r" - I just mean the vowel sound in "air" which I think is (ae).

Rob Bannister
Except for those of us who don't pronounce them that way.
Oh, you don't mean Open your mouth and say Ah. You mean a, like in balloon, right? Reading further, maybe not.

I gave 3 examples with 3 different vowel sounds. Do any two of the 3 words " look, lock and luck" sound the same to you?

It can be more than a little confusing, given an audience with multiple dialects - and especially where the original question is about the pronunciation of a vowel in a particular region - to talk about things like the "ah" sound without using some form of phonetic notation. For me, for example, those three words are indeed all different, but none of them has an "ah" or "aah" sound.
There are places in England where "cup" is pronounced with the same vowel as "look" and "luck".

Peter Moylan, Newcastle, NSW, Australia. http://www.pmoylan.org For an e-mail address, see my web page.
Except for those of us who don't pronounce them that way.

And would the original poster be one of those?
I gave 3 examples with 3 different vowel sounds. Do ... " look, lock and luck" sound the same to you?

It can be more than a little confusing, given an audience with multiple dialects - and especially where the original ... me, for example, those three words are indeed all different, but none of them has an "ah" or "aah" sound.

"ah" and "aah" have been used as phonetic notation. What would you suggest using given that we are constrained to ascii characters?
There are places in England where "cup" is pronounced with the same vowel as "look" and "luck".

Yes. And would put and putt also sound the same to those speakers?

-jim
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Robert Bannister filted:
dialect but not that Huffman/scufflaw bit).

I had sort of hoped that someone might have commented on "scofflaw" earlier on. In the end, I had to ... of foodstuff. Now I want to know why people in Wisconsin need a word like that in their everyday conversation.

Leave us not forget that it was the University of Wisconsin that gave birth to the Pail and Shovel party, which erected an apparently-submerged Statue of Liberty replica on a frozen Lake Michigan..r

"Oy! A cat made of lead cannot fly."
- Mark Brader declaims a basic scientific principle
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kirshenbaum of course. I've never seen '"aah" sound' before, and I have no idea what to make of it. Worse, to me, "ah" means the sound a doctor trying to look down your throat asks you to make ((A) in Kirschenbaum) or the nearby (A") sound that I use in "lock", "bomb", "cop", and "cot", which I doubt is the sound you're referring to in "cup" when you use "ah".
(snip)

Al in St. Lou
Starting July 20th, 1918, "German Valley" lost its name. Now, ... is a name change because of WWI and anti-German sentiment.

I am quite sure that there were far more name changes during the 1914-18 War than in the second World ... on. However, I am still unconvinced with regard to Huffman and Eisenhower - the change is just not big enough.

When I met relatives named Erbs, they swore they were French. However, they spoke no French and were fluent in German. They'd been born in America, where their parents had met, but each parent had come from Alsace-Lorraine.

Al in St. Lou
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I've never seen '"aah" sound' before, and I have no idea what to make of it.

Ideas are in short supply? Have you seen the "u' sound before? Would that be the sound used in cup or huff or puff?
Worse, to me, "ah" means the sound a doctor trying to look down your throat asks you to make ((A) in Kirschenbaum) or the nearby (A") sound that I use in "lock", "bomb", "cop", and "cot",

OK that would be the long ash sound as in "pot". How do you denote in ascii the vowels in "put" and "putt"?
-jim
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