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The point is not that "hot dog" means both the sausage and the sausageon

by

some members of these newsgroups.

Which brings to mind the old saying, "if it walks like a duck..." Hot Dogs, Weiners & Frankfurters Part 1: ... fromsigns on Coney Island. The term actually first appeared in print in the Oxford English Dictionary in 1900. Joanne

Hebrew National kosher dogs are the best in my opinion. Those bright red dogs that one finds down south or in the mid-west scare me. The dogs at Yankee stadium are the worst I've ever encountered ,they are dry and chewy ,I think they save the unsold ones for the next game.

Tasteless hot dog joke ,
What's the difference between a Fenway Frank and Barney Frank? The type of buns they come in.
If someone told me he'd bought "a hot dog" at the supermarket, I'd have to ask for a clarification, because I don't know of supermarkets that sell ready-to-eat hot dogs (though I don't doubt they exist somewhere).
But yes, it would be unexceptional to hear someone speak of "a hot dog on a bun" even though hot dog vendors needn't bother to mention "bun included", because it is assumed. Unless I hear "hot dog without a bun", I assume a hot dog to be a binary object.
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If someone told me he'd bought "a hot dog" at the supermarket, I'd have to ask for a clarification, because ... is assumed. Unless I hear "hot dog without a bun", I assume a hot dog to be a binary object.

Sorry, I inadvertently snipped the comment I was
responding to, which is below.

No difference in intonation is involved. I intended to write "If he were to say 'When I was at the supermarket today, I bought hot dogs,' I would assume that he had bought a package of the sausages in the meat section of the supermarket." I expect that the error occurred because I copied and pasted the sentence, but then forgot to change "a hot dog" to "hot dogs."
Michael West
Melbourne, Australia
If someone told me he'd bought "a hot dog" at ... I assume a hot dog to be a binary object.

No difference in intonation is involved. I intended to write "If he wereto say 'When I was at the supermarket ... and pasted the sentence, but then forgot to change "a hot dog" to "hot dogs." Michael West Melbourne, Australia

"Hot dog" has become for me the generic name for the sausage in question. When I was young, we called them "wieners." I presumably dropped that when I went away to college in a region where that term was not in common use. I know the terms "frankfurters" and "franks," but rarely use them except for the term "franks and beans," where perhaps the fact that there is a nationally-sold canned product consisting of beans and cup-up hot dogs in sauce which is referred to as "franks and beans" has had an effect on my usage.
It's possible the US federal government recognizes a difference in meaning between "hot dog" and "frank." The following-referenced Web page contains an article, "Focus on Hot Dogs," from the Food Safety and Inspection Service, United States Department of Agriculture. The term "hot dog" is used throughout, usually in the plural. If I understand the article correctly, a "beef frank" could not be labeled a "beef hot dog," and a "turkey frank" could not be labeled a "turkey hot dog."
See
http://www.fsis.usda.gov/OA/pubs/focushotdog.htm

Raymond S. Wise
Minneapolis, Minnesota USA
E-mail: mplsray @ yahoo . com

That's what it says all right, but if they are talking about Coney Island, they must be talking about just after the turn of the 20th century.
suggesting they contained dogmeat. It was such bad publicity that in 1913, the Chamber of Commerce actually banned use of the term "hog dog" from signs on Coney Island. The term actually first appeared in print in the Oxford English Dictionary in 1900. Joanne

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A coincidence. Just as I finished lunch a hot dog on a bun, a tomato, potato salad, and hot tea. The ... the subject of hot dogs, claimed that hot dogs are sausages, a claim disputed by some members of these newsgroups.

I've not seen hot dogs served with buns, only hamburgers. Hot dogs are served with rolls in this part of the world.
And yes, a hot dog is not a sausage, because different kinds of sausages are used some use frankfurters, some use vienna sausages and so on.

Steve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/7734/stevesig.htm
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A coincidence. Just as I finished lunch a hot dog on a bun, a tomato, potato salad, and hot tea. The ... the subject of hot dogs, claimed that hot dogs are sausages, a claim disputed by some members of these newsgroups.

I don't know the definition of sausage, but I've found in the US that although hotdogs may contain pork, if it's called sausage it almost always contains pork. There may be lamb sausage but I don't recall seeing it.
If one thinks of sausage as anything ground and stuffed into derma, or imitation derma, or into nothing but resembling the stuffed stuff, than I guess a hotdog would be a sausage whatever the ingredients.
Just now, the narrator said, "By now lots of folks called the sausages 'hot dogs.'" And after that, he made a reference to a long tradition of selling sausages at sporting events.

s/ meirman If you are emailing me please
say if you are posting the same response.
Born west of Pittsburgh Pa. 10 years
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I don't know the definition of sausage, but I've found in the US that although hotdogs may contain pork, if it's called sausage it almost always contains pork.

One additional curious thing about Chicago (TLCIAAMSTBFCR) is that it prides itself on its hotdogs, evidently, yet hotdogs composed wholly of pork are, it seems, unknown. I did see something close to this idear in a supermarket: some sort of all-pork Polish sausage, which seemed fairly hotdoglike. Back in places like Connecticut and New York you can readily find pork hotdogs.
Although I maintain that hotdogs and sausages are distinct, I recognize that (a) hotdogs evolved from certain kinds of sausages, and (b) there are certain kinds of sausages that are relatively close to the hotdog notion.
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I don't know the definition of sausage, but I've found in the US that although hotdogs may contain pork, if it's called sausage it almost always contains pork. There may be lamb sausage but I don't recall seeing it.

I think you are right that most sausage in the US contains pork, so pork-free sausage will tend to be so specified. But pork is not part of the definition of sausage, merely a default. See http://www.hillshirefarm.com/products/smoked sausage new.asp for several clearly non-pork uses. For that matter, the fact that googling "kosher sausage" gives 64,000 hits is a pretty good indicator that pork isn't a requirement.
Richard R. Hershberger
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