A coincidence. Just as I finished lunch a hot dog on a bun, a tomato, potato salad, and hot tea. The local PBS affiliate began showing a program called "A Hot Dog Program."
The first words pronounced by the narrator of the program were "Hot dogs. Everybody knows that hot dogs are little sausages served in buns."

The point is not that "hot dog" means both the sausage and the sausage on a bun although that is interesting in itself. The point is that the narrator, following a script written by someone who had presumably researched the subject of hot dogs, claimed that hot dogs are sausages, a claim disputed by some members of these newsgroups.
Just now, the narrator said, "By now lots of folks called the sausages 'hot dogs.'" And after that, he made a reference to a long tradition of selling sausages at sporting events.

Raymond S. Wise
Minneapolis, Minnesota USA
E-mail: mplsray @ yahoo . com
 2 3 4 5 6 7 » 54
The point is not that "hot dog" means both the sausage and the sausage on a bun although that is interesting ... the subject of hot dogs, claimed that hot dogs are sausages, a claim disputed by some members of these newsgroups.

I am astonished to see in MWC10 that a hot dog must include the bun as well as the frankfurter. I am less astonished to see that a frankfurter is defined as "a cured cooked sausage...".

I think what we are dealing with here is a question of kyrion onoma, or default. Frankfurters are sausages, but "frankfurter" is the default common noun for a sausage that happens to be a frankfurter. If you said you were grilling some sausages, I would be surprised if they turned out to be frankfurters. Likewise, tigers are cats, but if you said you came home & found a cat in your garage, etc.
Joe Fineman (Email Removed)
The point is not that "hot dog" means both the ... sausages, a claim disputed by some members of these newsgroups.

I am astonished to see in MWC10 that a hot dog must include the bun as well as the frankfurter. I am less astonished to see that a frankfurter is defined as "a cured cooked sausage...".

BrE: hot dog = frankfurter + bun
Matti
Students: Are you brave enough to let our tutors analyse your pronunciation?
I am astonished to see in MWC10 that a hot ... a frankfurter is defined as "a cured cooked sausage...".

BrE: hot dog = frankfurter + bun

Hence the expression "hot-dog sausage".
btw, do Merkans always "beechwood-smoke" their frankfurters? Here in England it's impossible to find an unsmoked wiener these days. :-(

Adrian
BrE: hot dog = frankfurter + bun

Hence the expression "hot-dog sausage". btw, do Merkans always "beechwood-smoke" their frankfurters? Here inEngland it's impossible to find an unsmoked wiener these days. :-(

Does that mean you have all switched from cigarettes?
The point is not that "hot dog" means both the ... sausages, a claim disputed by some members of these newsgroups.

I am astonished to see in MWC10 that a hot dog must include the bun as well as the frankfurter. I am less astonished to see that a frankfurter is defined as "a cured cooked sausage...".

I wonder if you correctly interpreted the meaning. The *Merriam-Webster Online Dictionary,* which was based on MWCD10, has for the first definition of "hot dog" the following: "1 : FRANKFURTER; especially : a frankfurter heated and served in a long split roll." I have a copy of MWCD11, which has the identical definition, and I also own a copy of an earlier version of the Collegiate, *Webster's New Collegiate Dictionary,* (C) 1981, which differs only in having "especially" abbreviated. The definition in question permits the term "hot dog" to refer to the meat item alone.
I think what we are dealing with here is a question of kyrion onoma, or default. Frankfurters are sausages, but ... frankfurters. Likewise, tigers are cats, but if you said you came home & found a cat in your garage, etc.

If someone were to say to me, "When I was at the supermarket today, I bought a hot dog," I would assume that it was a cooked wiener on a bun, which he had bought either at the store's deli, or perhaps just outside the front entrance, where charity groups and groups such as the Boy Scouts occasionally raise funds by selling "hot dogs," the sandwich (or non-sandwich, depending upon how you look at it).
If he were to say "When I was at the supermarket today, I bought a hot dog," I would assume that he had bought a package of the sausages in the meat section of the supermarket.Interestingly, when I wrote a post in Esperanto about "default meanings," I used the example of "Felis catus" being the default meaning of "kato," although I claimed that "leonoj" and "tigroj" were also "katoj." It turns out it's not so: A "leono" is not* a "kato" in Esperanto: Lions and tigers, like cats themselves, are "felisoj" ( = "felines" ). I've since talked to at least one native speaker of French who claimed that "léons" and "tigres" were not "chats," but "félins" Although I should note that the entries for "chat" and "félin" in the *Trésor de la Langue Française Informatisé ( TLFi, at http://atilf.atilf.fr/tlf.htm ) would seem to indicate that felines are indeed cats.

From the TLFi definition for "chat": "*I. A.* ZOOL. Genre de mammifères carnivores de la famille des Félidés comprenant le lion, le tigre, la panthère, le lynx, etc."

Raymond S. Wise
Minneapolis, Minnesota USA
E-mail: mplsray @ yahoo . com
Site Hint: Check out our list of pronunciation videos.
If someone were to say to me, "When I was at the supermarket today, Ibought a hot dog," I would ... hotdog," I would assume that he had bought a package of the sausages in the meat section of the supermarket.

Er...what? Is there a difference in intontation we're supposed to catch on to here?
Or did you mean "some hotdogs" in the 2nd example?
The point is not that "hot dog" means both the sausage and the sausage ona bun although that is interesting in ... researched the subject of hot dogs, claimed that hot dogs are sausages, a claim disputedby some members of these newsgroups.

Which brings to mind the old saying, "if it walks like a duck..."

Hot Dogs, Weiners & Frankfurters
Part 1: Where did the terms come from?
Sports and hot dogs go together like cookies and milk, a truly American institution with a rich and interesting history. Whether you call them hot dogs, red hots, weiners, franks or frankfurters, learn the good, the bad and the ugly, and try some recipe ideas.
A little history
Although the history of sausage goes back a long way, hot dogs are as American as apple pie. There's no sure etiology of the term hot dog, but two theories are the most prominent.
The popularity of the term hot dog is generally attributed to sports cartoonist T. A. "Tad" Dorgan, who caricatured German figures as dachshund dogs just after the turn of the 19th century. His talking sausage cartoons generally denigrated the cheap wieners sold at Coney Island, crassly suggesting they contained dogmeat. It was such bad publicity that in 1913, the Chamber of Commerce actually banned use of the term "hog dog" from signs on Coney Island. The term actually first appeared in print in the Oxford English Dictionary in 1900.
http://homecooking.about.com/library/weekly/aa041398.htm

Joanne
No difference in intonation is involved. I intended to write "If he were to say 'When I was at the supermarket today, I bought hot dogs,' I would assume that he had bought a package of the sausages in the meat section of the supermarket." I expect that the error occurred because I copied and pasted the sentence, but then forgot to change "a hot dog" to "hot dogs."

Raymond S. Wise
Minneapolis, Minnesota USA
E-mail: mplsray @ yahoo . com
Teachers: We supply a list of EFL job vacancies
Show more