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I think any person can achieve "native speaker" proficiency (whatever the definition of that term might be) as long as this person has a purpose for doing so.

Nona, the people you describe don't know why they should learn to speak English like everyone around them. They are comfortable with their lives so why change anything?
I'm not saying that they have to, just that it is a lot more difficult to get to a realistic 'native' level than people might think.
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Nona, who do you refer to by "people"?
EnglishuserHello everyone,

Some of you seem to be very confident as far as their ability to distinguish between native and non-native writers of English is concerned. What about posting some text samples for you to assess?

Let me know what you think,

Englishuser

It sounds like fun. I'd like to try it. Do you have any text to compare?
Hi Openmind,

You said:


I think any person can achieve "native speaker" proficiency (whatever the definition of that term might be) as long as this person has a purpose for doing so.

Nona, the people you describe don't know why they should learn to speak English like everyone around them. They are comfortable with their lives so why change anything?

I couldn't agree more. That's exactly what I've always thought myself. Becoming native-proficient in a second/foreign language is very difficult. It goes without saying that you need to work a lot, but reaching such a goal is certainly possible.

Englishuser

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Hi nona the brit,

You wrote:
I'm not saying that they have to, just that it is a lot more difficult to get to a realistic 'native' level than people might think.
Of course. How could it be very easy to become as proficient in a foreign language as you are in your first language? You spent several years full-time learning your first language, after all. However, it's also important to ask what we mean with "native speaker proficiency"? Is a person native proficient in a language if he or she passes as a native speaker in his or her everyday life? Probably not.

Englishuser
Hi simplyblessedwithlove,

How long texts do you think I should submit? I suppose I need to post at least four texts, by the way.

Englishuser
How about the text of each level: beginning, intermediate, advanced, and native's to compare.
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If you know the author of a text as an ESL speaker, then of you've already programmed your subconscious mind to find proof for something you know is a fact.
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