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Hi,

Sometimes it is confusing to decide whether it is right to put the article the in front of a nuon when it is followed by what looks to be a restrictive clause or phrase.

Do you say that a person needs examine the overall context more closely and develop an eye to see the bigger picture of things in order to make the right choices whenver he/she is confronted with this kind of dilemma? I think the both sentences below are better off without the article the but sometimes I do get mixed up and am wanting to know if you have some guides in regard to this.

eg,

These are (the???) jobs done by people in the class.

We should be cautious of (the???) movements unifying people and religions which may ...

Comments  
The restrictive clause/phrase of itself makes the noun specific. The definite articles in your examples are optional but redundant and hence usually omitted.
Thank you.

I was looking at your response pretty closely because I sensed it may/might have some hard kernels of knowledge but couldn't understand the part you said it is redundant.

Did you say it is optional but redundant? Please help me to understand why it is redundant?

Also, did you mean this?

The restrictive clause/phrase of itself makes the noun (itself??) specific
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The is semantically redundant because the noun is defined in the post-modifying clause, that is all. The indicates a specific or previously mentioned noun, but if the noun is otherwise specified or mentioned in the same sentence, then the the is semantically redundant (notice that I don't say grammatically redundant-- I have an idea that there are many situations in which it is grammatically required).

Yes, I meant what I said re the restrictive clause/phrase. Restrictive = specifying or identifying.
Thank you.

I was taking a good look at your response and came to this tentative conclusion.

These are jobs done by people in the class.

we should be cautious of movements unifying people and religious which may...

I think the above two sentences have two what look to be defining clauses after the nouns which allow them to have an option of having or not having the.

If they are just two normal?? specifying clauses, then the might be required.

There are the jobs to be done by our students.

We should be cautious of the movements that will lead people to commit more than they would voluntarily want do so.
Yes, the or no the-- both OK.
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Thank you very much.

Can you give me a couple of examples where the is semantically redundant but grammatically required?

Thank you.
Sure-- in all such structures with a singular countable noun: This is the job to be done by our students.