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And of course that's the way it should be. Systems of notation were invented as a convenience a way of teaching music in absentia .

Like writing.
Unfortunately the Western world filled up with people who thought the written notes were primary; that the music was "on ... teachers of music know the importance of encouraging students to "sound things out" for themselves without recourse to sheet music.

Anybody have the Plato quote about how books are a bad thing because they atrophy the memory, because they say the same thing every time you read them, and because you can't ask them questions?

Evan Kirshenbaum + HP Laboratories >We never met anyone who believed in
1501 Page Mill Road, 1U, MS 1141 >fortune cookies. That's astounding.Palo Alto, CA 94304 >Belief in the precognitive powers
This one?
If men learn this, it will implant forgetfulness in their souls; they will cease to exercise memory because they rely on that which is written, calling things to remembrance no longer from within themselves, but by means of external marks. What you have discovered is a recipe not for memory, but for reminder. And it is no true wisdom that you offer your disciples, but only its semblance, for by telling them of many things without teaching them you will make them seem to know much, while for the most part they know nothing, and as men filled, not with wisdom, but with the conceit of wisdom, they will be a burden to their fellows.
(Plato, Phaedrus 275a-b)
Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany

"it's the network..." "The Journey is the reward" (Email Removed) Info for manufacturers: http://www.trexon.com Embedded software/hardware/analog Info for designers: http://www.speff.com
Students: Are you brave enough to let our tutors analyse your pronunciation?
Anybody have the Plato quote about how books are a ... you read them, and because you can't ask them questions?

This one? If men learn this, it will implant forgetfulness in their souls; they will cease to exercise memory because ... not with wisdom, but with the conceit of wisdom, they will be a burden to their fellows. (Plato, Phaedrus 275a-b)

That was the first part. I'm pretty sure there's another about how books are bad for teaching because unlike a teacher they can't adapt to the student and can't answer questions, but always say the same thing.

Evan Kirshenbaum + HP Laboratories >English grammar is not taught in
1501 Page Mill Road, 1U, MS 1141 >primary or secondary schools in thePalo Alto, CA 94304 >United States. Sometimes some
Unfortunately the Western world filled up with people who thought ... "sound things out" for themselves without recourse to sheet music.

And, of course, we here at a.u.e. know the importance of encouragingpeople (students or not) to "sound things out" for themselves without recourse to things like dictionaries or grammar books. Or literature.

Well, we *do* learn language primarily "by ear."
No one is suggesting there is anything wrong
with relying on notation to help us share music
in absentia ; only that learning to express our
own musical ideas is equally important to perusing the ideas of other people.

Michael West
I didn't find Plato, but I did find Ralph Waldo Emerson ("Self-Reliance"):
Familiar as the voice of the mind is to each, the
highest merit we ascribe to Moses, Plato and Milton is that they set at naught books and traditions, and spoke not what men, but what they thought. A man
should learn to detect and watch that gleam of light which flashes across his mind from within, more than the lustre of the firmament of bards and sages. Yet he dismisses without notice his thought, because it is his. In every work of genius we recognize our own rejected thoughts; they come back to us with a
certain alienated majesty.
Ain't it the truth.

Best Donna Richoux
Students: We have free audio pronunciation exercises.
Anderew wrote on 27 Apr 2004: "instinctively"? It might also depend on what you're talking about. Some musicians play "by ear".

It's an interesting phrase. I wouldn't want to listen to a musician who didn't use his ear to guide him; ... an "intuitive" element involved, though certainly that's a common (mis?)conception. Some people are "intuitively" visual learners, and some are aural.

Well as a musician who does a lot of both (playing things that I've only heard* the music to, and other things that I have access to sheet music for), I can tell you there's a distinct difference. Unless the music is sufficiently simple, it's impossible to hear *exactly what notes are involved, so you do a best guess. For complex chromatic chords it requires a knack that few people have (I usually can work them out eventually, but rarely on first hearing). OTOH, reading from sheet music is a very straight-forward process - it might take you a few goes to learn how to play the notes exactly (and many hours if it's a Rachmaninov concerto), but at least you are in no doubt as to what the notes should be.
Reading sheet music I see as a completely 'learned' process, whereas being able to hear a tune and copy it uses far more innate abilities. Almost all people with no training can sing a melody or tap a rhythm that have heard enough times previously - it's taking to the level of playing it on another instrument, and filling in the harmonies etc. etc. that gets recognised as the talent for 'playing by ear'.
Dylan
Yo, dude! We've got the Web now, so why do ... dictionaries, grammar books, and literature? We can google everything now!

So (untangling the sarcasm), if I have a dictionary on my shelf, and I can access the same dictionary through the Web, you would advise me to consult the paper copy, not the electronic one?

No disk space left on your computer, is it? CD drive gone *** up, perhaps? No-one needs the Web if it's a good dictionary they're after.
Charles Riggs
email address: chriggs/at/eircom/dot/net
Anyway, please don't pay any attention to my ravings in posts like this. They are meant to entertain only me, and only while I'm writing them.

Can you not mark them with an R in the subject line so we'll know when to take you jocularly? We may be in the need of good laugh too, you understand.

Charles Riggs
email address: chriggs/at/eircom/dot/net
Site Hint: Check out our list of pronunciation videos.
Anyway, please don't pay any attention to my ravings in ... to entertain only me, and only while I'm writing them.

Can you not mark them with an R in the subject line so we'll know when to take you jocularly? We may be in the need of good laugh too, you understand.

However, it's fun, sometimes, to figure out that a given message is a joke rather than serious. It can be tricky sometimes: I was recently reading in Google News an article about spam messing up one of the Martian probes by way of NASA e-mail, started to have my doubts, and looked at the date: April 1st.
A book well worth reading is The Compleat Practical Joker* by H. Allen Smith, a recounting of *intelligent practical jokes.

Raymond S. Wise
Minneapolis, Minnesota USA
E-mail: mplsray @ yahoo . com
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