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There's a sort of old-time scary proletarian gruff Chicago accent where they pretty clearly say "Chicaugo", but those who use ... "aw". The former isn't so much Sipowiczic as it is a rougher version of Ackroyd or (at least Jim) Belushi.

Oops that should have been "latter", not "former".
I stay away from the suburban places in Chicagoland to the extent possible.

Did you miss a word out, or is that what you meant to write?

Matti
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Hey Coop, when you moved from Lincoln Park to that Grove prairie suburb place, did that coincide with you(r) "heeaving" kids?

No. I moved from Lincoln Park to Rogers Park on the lake. That coincided with getting married. From there we moved just north across the line to Evanston. Chirren, and a need for a larger apartment and an adjacent playground coincided with that. There was an intermediate move back to Indianapolis between the moves.
Hey Coop, when you moved from Lincoln Park to that Grove prairie suburb place, did that coincide with you(r) "heeaving" kids?

No. I moved from Lincoln Park to Rogers Park on the lake. That coincided with getting married. From there we moved just north across the line to Evanston. Chirren, and a need for a larger apartment and an adjacent playground coincided with that.

Well, okay, we know Evanston (named after our own Evan Kirshenbaum) isn't a true suburb.BTW, I recently noticed a weird thing about Chicago. You have the Loop and the Midtownish "Near North", and then above that you have places like Lincoln Park, Lake View, etc., true residential neighborhoods with some thriving commercial districts. But then go north of that, and you suddenly find yourself in what looks like the ruins of a satellite industrial city. This is still pretty much near the lake shore but close to the Evanston border. I don't know what that area is called.

I think part of it might be called "Uptown" now, but that conflicts with other definitions of "Uptown" that I've read about. Lots of old warehouse/factory-type things, which is also descriptive of much of western Chicago. There's some big hospital complex around there. I must have been close to this Rogers Park of which you speak, if not actually there. If so, I'm surprised you lived there, Coop; it doesn't really seem like your type of place.
I also found out why I hadn't seen any cemeteries in Chicago. They're hidden. They erect high walls so that you can't see the tombstones unless you actually enter the cemetery. I think this is reminiscent of the Chicago use of the "alley" for depositing garbage (trash/rubbish). (Or maybe it's to hide the activities of the Cook County Democratic Party get-out-the-vote people.) I don't think this is right; cemeteries should be visible to passers-by.
What I think is the essence of the difference between Chicago and New York, culturally, is different understandings of the normative sphere of privacy. For Chicagoans, garbage and cemeteries are kept private, while in New York they're out in the open. But, and it took me a long time to realize this, Chicagoans have a sort of quality that a New Yorker would regard as excessive prying or nosiness, a failure to respect the personal space of others. It's just different cultures, Coop. I'm wondering whether this is a general Midwestern thing, or whether non-Chicagoan Midwesterners have noticed it too.
What I think is the essence of the difference between Chicago and New York, culturally, is different understandings of the ... different cultures, Coop. I'm wondering whether this is a general Midwestern thing, or whether non-Chicagoan Midwesterners have noticed it too.

I noticed that. The tables are spaced much closer together in Chicago pizzerias.
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Bob Lieblich And who am I to dis JSBach? ... do we get instead? a heaving mass of Wagners.)

Or, as the Daily Mirror might put it, "a heaving mass of ***".

Wish I'd spotted that yesterday.
Speaking of which, I see from today's papers that the breast-bearing pot-puffing, pill-popping, woad-daubed yoof at this year's Glastonbury Festival ... whole third act of The Valkyrie. Far too retro for me, though. I'll be in the psy-trance tent as usual.

Eclectic in Somerset, aren't they? Apparently the warm and loving audience there made Johnny Cash cry, as he hadn't been sure they were going to dig him; so I guess ENO will be OK. Hell, they'd even cheer Brian Eno. (You do the fruit salts gag: I'm busy.)

Mike.
Up there in Minnesota they use the term "boulevard" to ... sorts of places. Do they say that around Chicago too?

How in Freck's name should I know? I stay away from the suburban places in Chicagoland to the extent possible.

What do the suburbs have to do with it? The suburbs are where you're more likely to have the lawn go all he way to the curb, with no sidewalk. It's in the city that you have the little strip of grass between the sidewalk and the curb that you're responsible for mowing but you're not allowed to plant on. (The city planted and maintained the trees there.)
We certainly didn't call it a "boulevard". I don't think it had a name.

Evan Kirshenbaum + HP Laboratories >The skinny models whose main job is
1501 Page Mill Road, 1U, MS 1141 >to display clothes aren't hired forPalo Alto, CA 94304 >their sex appeal. They're hired

(650)857-7572 > Peter Moylan

http://www.kirshenbaum.net /
How in Freck's name should I know? I stay away from the suburban places in Chicagoland to the extent possible.

What do the suburbs have to do with it? The suburbs are where you're more likely to have the lawn ... that you're responsible for mowing but you're not allowed to plant on. (The city planted and maintained the trees there.)

Kirsh, you got no argument from me. Blame Father Joe for confusing me. They have those grass strip things all over New York City, though particularly in areas that at one time were, functionally and perhaps in name, suburbs. Time was, when the automobile was young, people still built sidewalks in their communities. Accidents involving automobiles hitting pedestrians continue to increase (or so I would assume without bothering to check the stats), yet no one seems to listen to me. The ruinous suburbanites are having their day, yes, but that day will pass into night. Signs of change across this land are already evident.
We certainly didn't call it a "boulevard". I don't think it had a name.

I don't remember any name for such things in Brooklyn. I think I thought of them as a sort of separated part of the "lawn".
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I noticed that. The tables are spaced much closer together in Chicago pizzerias.

Very funny, Coop, but in point of fact there are (= ChiE (&r:)) no pizzerias in Chicago. There are plenty of 'pizza' places, sure.
In fact, it occurred to me the other day, as I walked past a Chicago 'pizza' place that proclaimed proudly that it had been in business since 1959, that there's a simple reason why some places have decent pizza and other places don't. In order to have decent pizza in a locality, there had to have been a thriving pizza culture before 1945. I'm guessing that pizza (not to mention 'pizza') was nonexistent in Chicago prior to the late '40s at the earliest, around the dawn of the early postwar "pizza pie" fad.

In New York, by contrast, as well as scattered parts of Jersey, southwestern Connecticut, and possibly Nassau County (?), and maybe one or two forgotten places upstate, pizza was well-established, at least in Italian-American communities, decades before 1945. True, the goyim didn't seem to know much from it, but that's neither here nor there. Now Vienna hot dogs, sure, people were eating Vienna hot dogs in Chicago well before Pearl Harbor.
We really have two kinds of American "pizza". The first kind, and the minority practice, is New York Region pizza, based on a Prewar pizza culture developed by southern Italian immigrants in a handful of communities. The second kind, which I call 'pizza', rather than pizza, and the majority practice, embracing everything from Chicago's "deep dish" to those Californian products featuring bacon and pineapple and avocado, along with all the various national fast-food 'pizza' chains and the frozen supermarket 'pizza', is all traceable to the post-1945 "pizza pie" fad. Two different foods, two different origins, but having the same label.
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