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Mike Stevens >

My late grandmother (born in the 19th century) used to ... speech of London and the hyperlect of the aristocratic classes.

Why was that?

I don't really know, but I have half a memory of reading somewhere that both ends of the social spectrum were untouched by a whole batch of changes in pronunciation that affected the Middle Classes sometime in the 19th century. Sorry I can't be more specific about the source - which might possibly be John Honey.

Mike Stevens, narrowboat Felis Catus II
Web site www.mike-stevens.co.uk
No man is an island. So is Man.
[nq:1] in message >
On the other hand there's the division into "morning" and ... - clearly it included the period between luncheon and dinner.

I'm not disputing your historical account of "morning", which differs from today's common assumptions and usage. Your post is very ... of "the evening and the morning" being the first day, second day, etc - not "the morning and the evening".

My fault for not checking the quote before I posted.
This is in tune with the Hebrew cultural perception of the day commencing in the evening (about which time exactly ... The evening of the Bible, therefore, has little to do with traditional English customs of meals and divisions of day.

But it came to us through translators who would, of course, have thought in the terms common in the England of their day. But my point was that, however defined, the morning and the evening made up a complete day, with no gap between them.

-- Mike Stevens, narrowboat Felis Catus II Web site www.mike-stevens.co.uk No man is an island. So is Man.
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snip
"Huntin', shootin'; and fishin'" is another classic example. Now most ... it has become much weaker than it use to be.

In public speaking, most definitely. A couple of years ago, though, I heard her speaking privately we were showing her around an exhibition at a formal reception and was quqite startled to hear just how strangulated she sounded. (I distinctly recall thinking "Hold on: you're not supposed to sound like that it's your son who talks like that..")
Prince Philip still exhibits a good example of it, and Price Charles a lesser one, but still stronger than his mother's.

Do Diana's children, William and Harry, speak that way too?

William certainly seems to not quite as pronounced as his father, but clearly cut from the same cloth.
That's hardly surprising, though: they weren't just "Diana's children", y'know.. (I believe they're said to be very close to their father.)

Cheers, Harvey
Ottawa/Toronto/Edmonton for 30 years;
Southern England for the past 21 years.
(for e-mail, change harvey to whhvs)
No, they would simply say 'ar'ernoon with glottal stops on the '

That is if they didn't say "wotcher", which I'd consider much more likely. Mind you, nowadays they'd be just as likely to say something like "hi" or "yo".

I live 40 miles east of London (on the Thames Estuary) and I suppose I speak a posh version of Estuary English. I would certainly differentiate between morning, afternoon and evening in greetings, but would miss out the "good" part. So I would say "afternoon" after midday, but would pronounce all the letters.
As far as definitions of times of the day go, pity the poor Victorian traveller to Turkey:
"The time will be given in Turkish fashion, which begins to count at sundown, and goes on for the whole twenty-four hours, so in the middle of the afternoon one may be told it is exactly 17 o' clock. Then as the sun does not have the politeness to set every day at the same time, it is necessary to carry an almanack in one' s head to reduce the Turkish time to English. (Barkley, Bulgaria, 181.)"

Louisa
Essex, England, Europe
[nq:2]It seems pretty standard here in California. In fact, if ... after noon, they will often correct themselves to "Good afternoon".
Yeagh! A nasty usage (far too prevalent on both sides of the Atlantic). Just because it is after noon, that ... of how the word "morning" was used at that time - clearly it included the period between luncheon and dinner.

In the days when I could still read Russian without too much trouble, I seem to remember being puzzled at finding 'zavtrak' (breakfast) being taken about noon, with 'obyed' (dinner) being served about midnight. Those old aristocrats lived a different life - almost like a student.

-- Rob Bannister
Students: Are you brave enough to let our tutors analyse your pronunciation?
That is if they didn't say "wotcher", which I'd consider ... just as likely to say something like "hi" or "yo".

I live 40 miles east of London (on the Thames Estuary) and I suppose I speak a posh version of ... all the letters. As far as definitions of times of the day go, pity the poor Victorian >traveller to Turkey:

the islamic religious day starts at sundown. at least during the ottoman empire this was formalized as a day that starts at sundown. the day would not be 24 hours, one had to adjust clocks according to the seasonal day. gradually the european system came to be used, and one specified "alaturka" (from the italian "Turkish style") or "alafranga" ("Frankish" - i.e. European - style). with the "Young Turk" revolution in 1908 "European style" became official and was consolidated with the 24 hour notation during the Republic. conservative oriented turkish almanacs sometimes still give old style times for prayer times alongside the standard ones.

the "seasonal hours" have their own names in turkish and arabic.