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John Lawler ha scritto nel messaggio ...
Dio (Email Removed) writes:

What about these idioms? Are them in fashion or out of fashion?

Most of these are not idioms. An idiom is a phrase that is not compositional. "Compositional" means you can figure out the meaning by putting together the meanings of the individual words.CUT

I think that an idiom is a form of expression peculiar to a language, which cannot be translated word for word into another language.

Many idiomatic expression are so strange that you couldn't possibily understand their meaning by looking at the individual words which make them up. Others, though readily understood, sound rather queer in your own language.

You feel that you yourself would never dream of putting together in such odd ways. Take the espression "It's raining cats and dogs". If you took this literally, you would expect to see cats and dogs falling from the sky - which would obviously be nonsensical - but the actual idiomatic meaning of the expression is : "It's raining very hard; it's pouring."

Take something very elementary. Is "good morning" and idiom?

The Italian says yes, of course it is, because in his own language he says "Buongiorno" - Good day- not "Buon mattino ." The German, on the other hand, who says "Guten Morgen, " finds nothing idiomatic whatever in "Good morning. "

The Italian, who says in his lnaguage "Prendersi cura di qualcuno, " will claim that "to take care of somebody is not necessarily idiomatic. But a Russian, who has no such expression in his language, will say at once that it is completely illogical, and hence extremely idiomatic.

Why take care? he will ask. What in fact you do is "give care". You give your care to a person - you don't take it from him.

So it is certainly difficult for different nationalities to agree on whether a given expression is idiomatic or not.

Bye bye John

Franco
[nq:1]Jerry Friedman ha scritto nel messaggio
"Keep it secret." This sounds obsolete to me, an American.

What's another way of saying that in American English?

There are many. "Keep quiet about this." "This is a secret, okay?" "Don't tell anyone."
"We've got to understand why this strange thing is happening." ... to hear it in a parody of a detective story.

What's another way of saying that? I mean an in fashion way:)

"We've got to figure out what's going on here."

-- Jerry Friedman
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[nq:1]John Lawler ha scritto nel messaggio ...
Dio (Email Removed) writes: Most of these are not idioms. ... meaning by putting together the meanings of the individual words.

CUT I think that an idiom is a form of expression peculiar to a language, which cannot be translated word ... ." The German, on the other hand, who says "Guten Morgen, " finds nothing idiomatic whatever in "Good morning. "

I have a Macedonian friend who often says "Dobro popladne" as a joke - "Good afternoon" is simply not said in the language. In fact, come to think of it, "Good afternoon" is pretty rare in most languages (that I know) and is becoming fairly old-fashioned in English.

-- Rob Bannister
In article , Robert Bannister (Email Removed) writes
I have a Macedonian friend who often says "Dobro popladne" as a joke - "Good afternoon" is simply not said ... Not in UK English. Saying "Good morning" after 12 noon is a nice trigger for a friendly smile over here.

-- Dave OSOS#24 (Email Removed) Remove my gerbil for email replies

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[nq:1]I have a Macedonian friend who often says "Dobro popladne" as a joke - "Good afternoon" is simply not said ... of it, "Good afternoon" is pretty rare in most languages (that I know) and is becoming fairly old-fashioned in English.
I would not have thought "Good afternoon" was any more old-fashoined in English than "Good morning" or "Good evening", as each would be used in the same polite or formal context depending on the time of day.

Unlike in French or German, "Good day" *is* old-fashioned, and in fact I have heard it used more often as an archaic way of saying goodbye than hello. Sometimes to cut short an undesired conversation.

Cheers, Tony -- Tony Mountifield Work: (Email Removed) - http://www.softins.co.uk Play: (Email Removed) - http://tony.mountifield.org
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I have a Macedonian friend who often says "Dobro popladne" as a joke - "Good afternoon" is simply not said in the language. In fact, come to think of it, "Good afternoon" is pretty rare in most languages

Absolutely standard in Dutch. I run most of my errands in the afternoon, and "Goede middag" is what is said by and said to every shopkeeper, cashier, agent, etc. Followed by the usual exchanges of "Here you are, thank you, here you are, thank you," etc.
(that I know) and is becoming fairly old-fashioned in English.

Best Donna Richoux
I have a Macedonian friend who often says "Dobro popladne" ... of it, "Good afternoon" is pretty rare in most languages

Absolutely standard in Dutch. I run most of my errands in the afternoon, and "Goede middag" is what is said ... cashier, agent, etc. Followed by the usual exchanges of "Here you are, thank you, here you are, thank you," etc.

It's hard to believe that "Goede middag" doesn't mean "Good midday" rather than "Good afternoon".
Absolutely standard in Dutch. I run most of my errands ... you are, thank you, here you are, thank you," etc.

It's hard to believe that "Goede middag" doesn't mean "Good midday" rather than "Good afternoon".

In fact, in Peter M Bergman's The Concise Dictionary of 26 Languages , English "noon" is Dutch "middag", and English "afternoon" is Dutch "namiddag".
In that same dictionary I see the following words for English "afternoon" in some Germanic languages:
German Nachmittag
Dutch namiddag
Swedish eftermiddag
Danish eftermiddag
Norwegian eftermiddag
Yiddish nochmitag
The Britannica Seven Language Dictionary confirms the above for German and Swedish. It's a little different for Yiddish: "nokmittik".
The "after midday" idea for "afternoon" appears to be discernible in French: "après-midi".
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In fact, in Peter M Bergman's The Concise Dictionary of 26 Languages , English "noon" is Dutch "middag", and English "afternoon" is Dutch "namiddag".

Well, "middag" does mean "afternoon." The time between 12.00 and 18.00. "Vanmiddag" means "this afternoon."
The current Van Dale ("dictionary of present-day Nederlands") does have an entry for "namiddag" which it defines as "middag." My daughter says that the few times she has heard "namiddag," it has meant "late afternoon."
She says that "middag" can also mean "noon," but she doesn't remember this moment-in-time being confused with the period-of-time.

I don't have any etymological information. Quite likely "namiddag" is the older name for the period, and was shortened to the current "middag."

Best Donna Richoux
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