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A. I imaged him perched on the grass.

Q1) Is sentence A correct English?
Q2) In sentence A, does "perched on the grass" describe "him"?

Q3) Is sentence A the same thing as "I imaged him being perched on the grass"?

Q4) If A is correct, is it also correct to say "I imagined him perched on the grass"?

I'm not sure whether "image someone past participle" structure is possible when "past participle" describes "him".

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There is no "image s.o. ...", just "imagine s.o.".

"perched" suggests "a bird", and "on a branch". I wonder why you chose that word.

Anyway, leaving that aside, "I imagined him perched on the grass" is grammatically OK.

'perched on the grass' doesn't exactly describe him. It says what he's doing. In that case we say that it predicates something about him.

It's a catenative structure.

I imagined him like this: He (was) perched on the grass.
~ I imagined him perched on the grass.
Also, with a content clause: I imagined that he (was) perched on the grass.

CJ

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CalifJim

Thank you very much.

I have three more last questions.

1. I took a picture of him scared by the dog.

2. I portrayed him scared by the dog.

3. I pictured him scared by the dog.

4. I imagined him scared by the dog.

5. I took a picture of him murdered by a robber.

6. I portrayed him murdered by a robber.

7. I pictured him murdered by a robber.

8. I imagined him murdered by a robber.


Q1) then are these eight sentences all correct English?

Q2) In all the sentences, do "scared by the dog" and "murdered by a robber" describe "him"?

Q3) Can I think that "being" is omitted in all the eight sentences as in "him being scared" and "him being murdered"? Is there any differnce in meaning whether "being" is added or not?

If they're not correct English, could you explain with your example?

fire1Q1) then are these eight sentences all correct English?

Yes, though, small point, the one with 'took a picture' sounds a bit awkward.

fire1Q2) In all the sentences, do "scared by the dog" and "murdered by a robber" describe "him"?

Yes, in that they describe the situation that he is in when the portrayal, picturing, or imagining are done.

fire1Q3) Can I think that "being" is omitted in all the eight sentences as in "him being scared" and "him being murdered"? Is there any difference in meaning whether "being" is added or not?

being makes it a portrayal or picture of the act in progress; without being it's a portrayal of the result of the action.

For example, 'being murdered' is like a video that shows the entire process of murdering him, while just 'murdered' is like a still photo that shows him dead on the floor.

In short, adding 'being' changes the meaning.

CJ

CalifJimCalifJim

Thank you very much

I'm sorry I have some more questions to ask..

9. I took a picture of him dead.

10. I took a picture of him dead on the floor.

11. I pictured him dead.

12. I pictured him dead on the floor.

13. I imagined him dead.

14. I imgained him dead on the floor.

15. I portrayed him dead.

16. I portrayed him dead on the floor.

Q1) then Is it correct to say 9,10,11,12,13,14,15,16 with this adjectival phrase "dead" or "dead on the floor"?

CalifJimfire1Q3) Can I think that "being" is omitted in all the eight sentences as in "him being scared" and "him being murdered"? Is there any difference in meaning whether "being" is added or not?being makes it a portrayal or picture of the act in progress; without being it's a portrayal of the result of the action.

Q2) Maybe is this difference the same as in "I saw him murdured" vs "I saw him being murdered"?

Q3)

5. I took a picture of him murdered by a robber.

6. I portrayed him murdered by a robber.

7. I pictured him murdered by a robber.

8. I imagined him murdered by a robber

What's the exact meaning of 5,6,7,8?

Are they the same in meaning as below?

5a. I took a picture of him, who was murdered by a robber.

6a. I portrayed him, who was murdered by a robber.

7a. I pictured him, who was murdered by a robber.

8a. I imagined him, who was murdered by a robber.

Hmm.. but "who was" doesn't seem to make 5a,6a,7a,8a convey the same meaning as 5,6,7,8.

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CalifJimCalifJim

To talk about the reason why I'm so fosued on this question, I before learnt that additional information cannot be added to pronouns such as him or her or it without adding a comma or adding relative pronouns with a comma, because it is already identified who/what is "him", "her" or "it".

So, I mean,

E. Yesterday I met him talking with a girl at the restaurant.

Here I used "talking with a girl at the restaurant" as describing "him"

But isn't sentence E wrong unless E is written as "Yesterday I met him when he was talking with a girl at the restaurant" ?

Maybe if context is clear, is sentence E correct and conveying the same meaning as "Yesterday I met him when he was talking with a girl at the restaurant"?

Since I'm 100% sure that "I saw him talking with a girl at a restaurant" works perfectly, I don't see why E doesn't work if "talking" modifies "him".


More examples,

X. I was next to him dead on the floor.

Y. I was next to him talking with a girl.

Z. I was talking about him dancing on the stage,

I used "dead on the floor", "talking with a girl", "dancing on the stage" to describe "him", so this way, are X,Y,Z correct English?

It seems like X,Y,Z don't work this way and this construction is possible only with some verbs such as see, watch..

Maybe is it because E,X,Y,Z are only acceptable only in a specific context for "him" to be seen as described?

CalifJimCalifJim

Seeing your answers and other sources on Google, I'd conclude this way...

Pronoun + verb~ ing or adjective phrase is possible only in these situations below.

1) When pronoun(him/her/it/them) in "pronoun+verb~ing" is the object of such verbs as see, watch, imagine.

For example,

- I saw him being murdered by a robber.

- I imagined him being murdered by a robber.

2) When pronoun(him/her/it/them) in "pronoun+verb~ing" is the object of the preposition of the combination of a verb and noun and preposition such as " take a picture of", which functions like such verbs as see, watch, imagine.

- I took a picture of him dead on the floor.

- I took a picture of him sitting on one of my classroom stools.

- I have an image of him sitting on the crook of his mother's hip, head rested consolingly on her shoulder, soaking up comfort."

3) When even if "pronoun +verb~ing" is changed to "genetive +verb~ing", the meaning of a sentence doesn't sound wrong.

- I don't mind him smoking. = I don't mind his smoking.

- I was talking about him dancing on the stage = I was talking about his dancing on the stage.

Unacceptable case

- I met him talking with a girl at the restaurant. Here, since "him talking" doesn't belong to any group listed above, this is an unnatural sentence.


Especially, as for case 2, I'm not really sure whether I can see "take a picture of" and "have an image of", as a whole, work like such verbs as "see", "watch", "imagine".

What do you think about my conclusion and case 2?

fire1

9. I took a picture of him dead.

10. I took a picture of him dead on the floor.

11. I pictured him dead.

12. I pictured him dead on the floor.

13. I imagined him dead.

14. I imagined him dead on the floor.

15. I portrayed him dead.

16. I portrayed him dead on the floor.

Q1) then Is it correct to say 9,10,11,12,13,14,15,16 with this adjectival phrase "dead" or "dead on the floor"?

Yes.

CJ

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fire1Q2) Maybe is this difference the same as in "I saw him murdured" vs "I saw him being murdered"?

Correct.

fire1What's the exact meaning of 5,6,7,8? Are they the same in meaning as below?

You might say that you pictured (portrayed, etc.) this person as he looked after he was murdered.

fire1"who was" doesn't seem to make 5a,6a,7a,8a convey the same meaning as 5,6,7,8.

No, the meaning isn't the same in all those "who was" sentences.

CJ

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