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There may be a germ of truth in your generalisation: no-one has ever been rude to me in Manchester,

Well, if you wish, next time we boink in Manchester I'll be as rude as you want, and I'm sure YoungBloke could be persuaded to blow a raspberry or two in your direction.

I am careful and logical and I look things up I don't understand! When I hear people use the wrong words I get edgy! I am good with cheese. I read books fast. I /think/! And I always have a piece of string. That's the kind of person I am! (Pratchett, Wee Free Men)
Linz typed thus:
There may be a germ of truth in your generalisation: no-one has ever been rude to me in Manchester,

Well, if you wish, next time we boink in Manchester I'll be as rude as you want, and I'm sure YoungBloke could be persuaded to blow a raspberry or two in your direction.

That's not rude, that's cute.

David
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Disturbing; but it was news to me. We must check the inevitable responses in Monday's edition to see if they confirm or deny.

It should not be news to you.

I take it you have found that kind of thing is widespread in London. Could you give us some examples, please? I ask, because, whether it should be or not, it is news to me.
Mike.
I'm afraid that whilst the specifics of the reported case are very shocking, the basic fact of this current antoi-Americanism in the UK is familar to anyone who comes into contact with political expression

But that's a dislike of American politics, not of Americans as people.

I live in Bristol, not London. And I'm not American. But several of my friends here are American ex-pats, and not once have I heard them complain about any sort of anti-American feeling directed towards them as people. Admittedly my American friends tend to be liberals, so they'd probably join in with any Bush-bashing that was on offer.

As it happens, I also live in a part of town where there's a large Pakistani and noticeable Afghan population. There's an enormous anti-Bush and anti-Blair feeling locally, but it still doesn't spill over onto Americans as individual people.
I see this article as entirely unrepresentative, if not downright misleading. Would a journalist inflate one madman on the bus into a national campaign, if it filled out a column ? You bet they would.

Smert' spamionam
Serves her right for living in London, which is a centre of rudeness.

I agree. It's a nasty, graceless place.
Other factors:
(a) She mixes with sophisticates. Anti-Americanism has been de rigueur for metropolitan sophisticates in England for at least a decade. Anti-Americanism often spawns anti-Israelism (and vice versa).

(b) She mixes with intellectuals. Intellectuals in England are by definition Left-wing, thus even more anti-American than run-of-the-mill metropolitan sophisticates, thus even more likely to be anti-Israel. Intellectuals also tend to be Continental rather than English in outlook ('English intellectual' is an oxymoron), thus perhaps more likely to exhibit the more virulent Continental strain of anti-Semitism. (A bit weak, that, but you never know.)
(c) Princess Diana. She taught us that (i) emotion is paramount and (ii) self-restraint is an evil tyranny, a denial of our fundamental human right to express our feelings at all times and in all places. She was not a shouty person but her sanctification has led to a lot of shoutiness and stridency - and possibly to a more open expression of innate bigotry. I have a right to express my feelings, you are insensitive, he is a bigot. The People's Princess has turned us into right royal shits.
(d) Ben Elton. More shoutiness; plus abuse as argument.

(e) Tony Blair. See (c).
(f) Liverpool. We're all Liverpudlians now. Validate my feelings or I'll kick your head in and steal your car. (Hey! I'm just expressing my feelings.)

Mickwick
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Andy Dingley wrote on 17 Oct 2004:
I see this article as entirely unrepresentative, if not downright misleading. Would a journalist inflate one madman on the bus into a national campaign, if it filled out a column ? You bet they would.

Your generalization is out of place here, I'm afraid. You're dealing with a known journalist, not an anonymous editorial piece. Therefore, rather than merely insinuating that Carol Gould has "inflate(d) one madman on the bus into a national campaign ... to (fill) out a column" simply because she is a journalist (Guilt by Association), you are, I think, obliged to demonstrate that Ms Gould has a history of so doing or that you know personally that she is that kind of journalist. If you cannot do one or the other, then you are merely slinging mud at someone you only assume behaves according to your stereotyped characterization of journalists. Can we coined a new term to describe your prejudice against journalists: "professionist", perhaps? Or "jobist", "workist", or "vocationist"?
What you've said is essentially the same as claiming that all lawyers are shysters, and you know that this is not true.
By the way, her article contained anecdotes about a few more unpleasant, threatening, and frightening encoutners than that one madwoman on the bus. Not only do you defame Ms Gould's character based on your own stereotype of journalists, but you also misrepresent what she had to say. You are arguing at the bargain-basement level, projecting your predjuices onto a specific inidividual you probably know as little about as I do (having read only part of one of her many published articles), and presenting false information about what she wrote. Surely you can do better than this? I sure hope you can.

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> (f) Liverpool. We're all Liverpudlians now. Validate my feelings or
I'll kick your head in and steal your car.

That is such intellectually-lazy stereotyping. Liverpudlians aren't all like that: some of them only kick your head in.

Mike.
I'm afraid that whilst the specifics of the reported case ... familar to anyone who comes into contact with political expression

But that's a dislike of American politics, not of Americans as people.

You might think so, but the reported case was of stupid people transferring their (apparent) dislike of American politics (not that it has anything to do with them) onto American people just because they were American (indeed, that was all the aggressors knew about them).
I live in Bristol, not London. And I'm not American. But several of my friends here are American ex-pats, and not once have I heard them complain about any sort of anti-American feeling directed towards them as people.

Does the underlying reason matter?
Admittedly my American friends tend to be liberals, so they'd probably join in with any Bush-bashing that was on offer.

They shouldn't have to merely in order to be respceted and left to get on with their business. And what if they were Republican voters? Would they have fewer rights to be respected as individuals?
As it happens, I also live in a part of town where there's a large Pakistani and noticeable Afghan population. There's an enormous anti-Bush and anti-Blair feeling locally, but it still doesn't spill over onto Americans as individual people.

That doesn't matter. Anti-one-particular-aspect-of-Americanism, when it is manifested as rudeness and aggression, is not acceptable.
I see this article as entirely unrepresentative, if not downright misleading. Would a journalist inflate one madman on the bus into a national campaign, if it filled out a column ? You bet they would.

I don't know about that.
OTOH, I do remember the notorious "Question Time". It was embarrassing to watch.
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Mickwick typed thus:
(c) Princess Diana. She taught us that (i) emotion is paramount and (ii) self-restraint is an evil tyranny, a denial ... express my feelings, you are insensitive, he is a bigot. The People's Princess has turned us into right royal shits.

Somebody was discussing Boris's rag's attack on Liverpudlians on the radio yesterday, and opined that the outpouring of public grief for Diana flushed out the systems of those who needed it, and was in the long run beneficial as most people have now forgotten her.

Another commentator this morning said that Boris will never be leader of the Conservatives as it is not possible to be a party leader if you have a sense of humour. Can't help liking Boris.

David
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