An interesting article about Rightpondia in today's Guardian:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/comment/story/0,3604,1328663,00.html

Comment
An American scapegoat in London
In Britain, America-bashing is so bad that I fear for my safety

Carol Gould
Saturday October 16, 2004
The Guardian

Franke: EFL teacher & medical editor
For email, replace numbers with English alphabet.
 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 14
An interesting article about Rightpondia in today's Guardian: http://www.guardian.co.uk/comment/story/0,3604,1328663,00.html Comment An American scapegoat in London In Britain, America-bashing is so bad that I fear for my safety Carol Gould Saturday October 16, 2004 The Guardian

Disturbing; but it was news to me. We must check the inevitable responses in Monday's edition to see if they confirm or deny.

Mike.
CyberCypher wrote on 16 Oct 2004:
An interesting article about Rightpondia in today's Guardian: http://www.guardian.co.uk/comment/story/0,3604,1328663,00.html Comment An American scapegoat in London In Britain, America-bashing is so bad that I fear for my safety Carol Gould Saturday October 16, 2004 The Guardian

You can read the entire original article at:
http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/Printable.asp?ID=15464

Franke: EFL teacher & medical editor
For email, replace numbers with English alphabet.
Students: Are you brave enough to let our tutors analyse your pronunciation?
Mike Lyle wrote on 17 Oct 2004:
An interesting article about Rightpondia in today's Guardian: http://www.guardian.co.uk/comment/story/0,3604,1328663,00.html Comment ... my safety Carol Gould Saturday October 16, 2004 The Guardian

Disturbing; but it was news to me. We must check the inevitable responses in Monday's edition to see if they confirm or deny.

I just posted the URL for the full original article, which I haven't yet read:
http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/Printable.asp?ID=15464

It's disturbing and quite surprising to me as well. I would never have expected to read such an article about that kind of treatment of random Americans in London or any other part of Europe, no matter how much the European governments and/or the citizens of European countries dislike George W Bush and the war in Iraq.
I'm interested to see what anyone else who might know about such things has to say on the subject. I agree that it needs confirmation. The original was published on October 12, so the Guardian had a couple of days to check it out. I wonder if they did.

Franke: EFL teacher & medical editor
For email, replace numbers with English alphabet.
Mike Lyle wrote on 17 Oct 2004:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/comment/story/0,3604,1328663,00.html safety

Disturbing; but it was news to me. We must check the inevitable responses in Monday's edition to see if they confirm or deny.

I just posted the URL for the full original article, which I haven't yet read: http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/Printable.asp?ID=15464 It's disturbing and quite ... on October 12, so the Guardian had a couple of days to check it out. I wonder if they did.

Like Mike Lyle, I'll be interested to read the Guardian's postbag on Monday. Thousands of Americans live in London and the Uk, and thousands more visit every year, and yet we rarely hear of such things. It's undeniable that both anti-Americanism and anti-semitism exist in Britain, just as they do anywhere else. It does seem, though, that Ms Gould has been extremely unfortunate in experiencing so much of both.
On the other hand, a book review (apparently) by her at contains this sentence: "She (Phyllis Chesler) is unequivocal in declaring that those who accuse Israel of genocide and apartheid protesting that they are not Jew-haters are anti-Semites" - which leaves me wondering whether she is not one of those zionists who are unable (or unwilling) to distinguish between anti-zionism and anti-semitism.
I also can't help wondering how much of the antipathy that Ms Gould describes is actually inspired by her nationality and faith, and how much of it is personal, perhaps occasioned by outspoken views that she herself expresses. She appears (unless it's a coincidence of names - there seem to be several Carol Goulds out there) to be a regular contributor to a web-based magazine called "Jewish Comment" , although I didn't read enough there to determine its political stance.

Mark Barratt
An interesting article about Rightpondia in today's Guardian: http://www.guardian.co.uk/comment/story/0,3604,1328663,00.html Comment ... my safety Carol Gould Saturday October 16, 2004 The Guardian

Disturbing; but it was news to me. We must check the inevitable responses in Monday's edition to see if they confirm or deny.

It should not be news to you. In a situation where one group is the subject of significant prejudice, that group will be much more aware of it than the group to which the prejudiced belong. In the US, we hear the same type of thing when the topic of racism comes up. Most black Americans will tell you that it is rampant, and most whites will say that it's not a big problem these days. But there's a good reason for this.
Suppose that 95% of people in a city are not racist, and the rest dislike blacks. A black person cannot walk down a city block without passing a racist, assuming there are 20 people on the street. On a ten block walk, that person might pass by 20 different racists. Some might just give uncomfortable looks, and one might make a comment. But even if there is no comment made, it is bound to happen a few times a month if this is a regular walk.
Conversely, the white people in that city are exposed to other whites, 95% of whom would never express such feelings. The rest may know better than to broach the subject, especially if they suspect that the people they are with will not be receptive. On the rare occasions when they encounter somebody with such views who voices them, it will appear to be an anomaly. Since the racist is more likely to make his views known in the presence of blacks, and when not with companions who may not share his views, the likelihood of being in a situation where one becomes aware of these views is even smaller if the population is largely white.
Since most people would tend to disassociate themselves from somebody engaging in such a verbal tirade, it gives the appearance that most people don't have any objections. Thus, this behavior becomes viewed as typical and what should be expected by the victims of this sort of behavior. Unless people speak out openly when they encounter such behavior, and make it clear that the person does not speak for them, then this perception will continue.
Teachers: We supply a list of EFL job vacancies
Mike Lyle wrote on 17 Oct 2004: http://www.guardian.co.uk/comment/story/0,3604,1328663,00.html safety I ... days to check it out. I wonder if they did.

Like Mike Lyle, I'll be interested to read the Guardian's postbag on Monday. Thousands of Americans live in London and ... contributor to a web-based magazine called "Jewish Comment" , although I didn't read enough there to determine its political stance.

Ms Gould does seem to have attracted a good deal of antipathy and I strongly suspect that there is an element of exaggeration in her account. One clue to this is the way that she supports her argument with a conjecture about the feelings of a well-known Jewish actress, without any apparent evidence.
None of my American friends in the UK have reported anything like this. From casual observation, I would suggest that American visitors to Oxford are still treated with the same courtesy that Oxford has always offered them (for many years during the 1950s and 1960s a wall in the centre of town bore the legend "Yanks go home") but I spent most of this week in the company of American visitors who told me that they were very favourably impressed with the welcome they had received everywhere they had been in England. They were polite, genial people and had been treated politely and genially.
Since 9/11 I have noticed that people in the UK feel that criticism of Israel can be more freely expressed. There is, indeed, much to criticise but a good deal of this criticism is ill-informed and it is often expressed in a way that can easily be interpreted as anti-semitic, even by those who are not especially sensitive to such nuances. Linda Grant's articles on this in the Guardian offered a far more balanced picture that matches my own experience more closely and she has written some very insightful pieces on Israel.

Laura
(emulate St. George for email)
Mike Lyle wrote on 17 Oct 2004:

Disturbing; but it was news to me. We must check the inevitable responses in Monday's edition to see if they confirm or deny.

I just posted the URL for the full original article, which I haven't yet read: http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/Printable.asp?ID=15464 It's disturbing and quite ... on October 12, so the Guardian had a couple of days to check it out. I wonder if they did.

Given that much of the piece is based on personal anecdote, checks are not possible. Her account of the treatment (and reaction) of the American ambassador is spot-on. I take issue, however, with David Dimbleby looking on 'dispassionately'. Google on the Ambassador's name and 'Question Time' and you see accounts that Dimbleby struggled hard to get the affair back on an even keel.
What she doesn't mention (and I accept it was by no means incumbent on her to do so) was the reaction of viewers who rang the BBC and newspapers to comlain about the anti-American yobbish behaviour. Or that Greg (then DG) phoned the Ambassador to apologise.
John Dean
Oxford
Mike Lyle wrote on 17 Oct 2004: http://www.guardian.co.uk/comment/story/0,3604,1328663,00.html I just ... days to check it out. I wonder if they did.

Like Mike Lyle, I'll be interested to read the Guardian's postbag on Monday. Thousands of Americans live in London and ... contributor to a web-based magazine called "Jewish Comment" , although I didn't read enough there to determine its political stance.

She's the Editor. Here's an opinion piece by her from last December http://www.jewishcomment.com/cgibin/news.cgi?id=11&command=shownews&newsid=614 http://tinyurl.com/7xs3c
She's also making reference there to the "programme on which Philip Lader, the former US Ambassador to Great Britain, was foot-pounded, heckled and screamed at by a vicious BBC studio audience two days after 9/11."
She also avers "What is so said (sic) about the British and European anti-war movement (I was close to joining the anti-war crowd after 'shock and awe, but.read on) is that the protestors are screamers who rave and rant about the murderous Jews and who cannot separate their hatred of Israel from their hatred of the Bush Doctrine." I don't doubt there are those opposed to Israel who also oppose Bush and / or the Iraqi venture. But characterising the whole movement as 'screamers who rave and rant about the murderous Jew' seems to me remote from the truth.
Carol Gould also thoughtfully provides a link to Melanie Philips' diary so we can judge whether she is truly a 'gentle liberal' compared to such as O'Reilly and Gingrich.

John Dean
Oxford
Site Hint: Check out our list of pronunciation videos.
Show more