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Dean:

Getting straight As doesn't 'make' anyone smart.

Exactly my point. Grades don't matter.

Grades per se may not matter, but the self-discipline and study required to get As do matter.
Though smart people are often capable of straight As.

But, they generally realize that it's a waste to work their asses off for an A rather than a B.

It may be a waste to work one's ass off solely to obtain an A, but it is far from a waste to work one's ass off. Those who achieve success in their lives have almost invariably worked their asses off. Life is not a TV show.
Not starting until you're 30 the kind of courses that the average student is up for at 18 will certainly not persuade anyone you're smart.

Why? You said it yourself: grades don't make you smart. Laziness shouldn't count against anyone.

Grades don't make you smart. Discipline and study make you smart. Good grades are merely a side-effect.

Mike Nitabach
Nitabach:
Grades per se may not matter, but the self-discipline and study required to get As do matter.

I will have self-discipline when the work I'm doing actually matters.
Life is not a TV show.

Yes it is.
Good grades are merely a side-effect.

But, even dummies can get good grades with enough effort. They're meaningless.
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Nitabach:

Grades per se may not matter, but the self-discipline and study required to get As do matter.

I will have self-discipline when the work I'm doing actually matters.

Ah, but the question is: How will you convince someone that you can so that they know that they can count on you enough to give you work that actually matters?
Life is not a TV show.

Yes it is.

I'm sorry. The quote is "Life's a show". "TV" was not specified, and the implication was that it was a stage show.
Good grades are merely a side-effect.

But, even dummies can get good grades with enough effort. They're meaningless.

On the one hand we have someone who is either smart or a dummy who will actually put in enough effort to do the job. On the other hand we have...well, we don't really know. Might be someone smart who just didn't care; might be someone dumb who didn't care; might be someone who tried their hardest and couldn't do it. Who do you pick? Who do you even bother calling in for the interview?
Not that "straight A's" are worth all that much, although it does show that you can do pretty much anything you put your mind to, but a solid pattern of (at least mostly) A's in what you claim to be your area of expertise is very helpful. Until you've gotten some publication history or work experience, after which nobody cares what grades you got in school.

Evan Kirshenbaum + HP Laboratories >If all else fails, embarrass the
1501 Page Mill Road, 1U, MS 1141 >industry into doing the rightPalo Alto, CA 94304 >thing.

(650)857-7572
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Evan:
Ah, but the question is: How will you convince someone that you can so that they know that they can count on you enough to give you work that actually matters?

I sure have a way with convincing people online that I'm interesting. What makes you think it's any different offline?
I'm sorry. The quote is "Life's a show". "TV" was not specified, and the implication was that it was a stage show.

All the world is a stage.
Might be someone smart who just didn't care; might be someone dumb who didn't care; might be someone who tried their hardest and couldn't do it.

And how's any of that different than:
On the one hand we have someone who is either smart or a dummy who will actually put in enough effort to do the job

?
In both cases, you're as likely to get a dummy as not. Well, actually, you're more likely to get a dummy out of the group who "put in effort", because dummies always feel they have to "prove" themselves. Smart people are intelligent enough to realize that high school and college achievements, especially arbitrary grades, are meaningless.
but a solid pattern of (at least mostly) A's in what you claim to be your area of expertise is very helpful.

Well, right now I have a pattern of mostly B's in general and in my "areas of expertise". I'm fine with that and most rational people should be too.
Until you've gotten some publication history

And, luckily for me, AUE has provided me that opportunity. All an employer has to do is visit the AUE and look through my Google history. Where else can such words of wisdom be found?
or work experience

See above.
after which nobody cares what grades you got in school.

Good. So my plan is working out then.
?

Either one will be able to do the job.
In both cases, you're as likely to get a dummy as not. Well, actually, you're more likely to get a dummy out of the group who "put in effort", because dummies always feel they have to "prove" themselves.

And it wasn't Statistics, either, was it?
Okay, let's take it slowly, with some hypothetical numbers. Say 10% of the population is "smart" and the other 90% are "dummies". Say further that 80% of the smart people will get A's because, hey, they're smart. (The other 20% could get A's but don't bother.) On the other hand, by virtue of excessive effort, 30% of the dummies also manage to get A's. (I'm exaggerating the numbers in your favor here.) So we can conclude that 0.***.8+0.***.3 = 35% of the students get A's.
Now, what's the likelihood that a given student is smart? If they got A's, then we're looking at
P(smart>A's) = P(A's>smart)*P(smart)/P(A's)
= 0.8 * 0.1 / 0.35
= ~0.229
so only a bit more than a fifth of the people who get A's are smart. Now let's look at the other group.
P(smart>not A's) = P(not A's>smart)*P(smart)/P(not A's) = 0.2 * 0.1 / 0.65
= ~0.031
So only about one in thirty students who doesn't get A's is smart. Given one student who gets A's and one who doesn't, the one who gets A's is a more than seven times as likely to be smart.
Smart people are intelligent enough to realize that high school and college achievements, especially arbitrary grades, are meaningless.

Yeah, but most actual smart people get good grades anyway, because it doesn't take any tremendous amount of "work".
but a solid pattern of (at least mostly) A's in what you claim to be your area of expertise is very helpful.

Well, right now I have a pattern of mostly B's in general and in my "areas of expertise". I'm fine with that and most rational people should be too.

To me that says "respectable, capable, but don't expect too much, and he either didn't see the subject as interesting enough to warrant putting in the effort or that's the best he can do". (Of course, it matters whether that's "mostly B's with a few A's" or "mostly B's with a few C's".)
Until you've gotten some publication history

And, luckily for me, AUE has provided me that opportunity.

This is a vanity press. It doesn't really count, although we'll read unrefereed tech reports if that's all that's available.
All an employer has to do is visit the AUE and look through my Google history.

Luckily for you, nobody will make that effort.

Evan Kirshenbaum + HP Laboratories >Code should be designed to make it
1501 Page Mill Road, 1U, MS 1141 >easy to get it right, not to workPalo Alto, CA 94304 >if you get it right.

(650)857-7572
http://www.kirshenbaum.net /
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Evan:

Ah, but the question is: How will you convince someone ... on you enough to give you work that actually matters?

I sure have a way with convincing people online that I'm interesting. What makes you think it's any different offline?

Before you pop your arm out of the socket patting yourself on the back, think about how traffic slows down so people can gawk at a bad accident. The "interest" in you is more like "Hey! Look! The jaws of life!".
}
}>Evan:
}>
}>>
}>>Ah, but the question is: How will you convince someone that you can so }>>that they know that they can count on you enough to give you work that }>>actually matters?
}>
}>I sure have a way with convincing people online that I'm interesting. What }>makes you think it's any different offline?
}
} Before you pop your arm out of the socket patting yourself on the } back, think about how traffic slows down so people can gawk at a bad } accident. The "interest" in you is more like "Hey! Look! The jaws of } life!".
Ain't that the truth.On the Capital Beltway (Interstate 495) westbound in Maryland (the Outer Loop, going counter-clockwise (BrE: "anticlockwise") around (and, for a bit over the Potomac, through) the District of Columbia, there is a distinct jog in the road (you may be able to see it on your free State Farm road atlas map of Washington, D.C.) around the Washington Temple of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (referred to by some locally as The Mormon Temple).

Approaching it from the east, the spires seem to rise out of the road, only to be blocked by several bridges, then the complete temple again in all its glory. On one of the middle bridges, pranksters fairly regularly (since the temple was built) paint in large block letters "SURRENDER DOROTHY". (Maybe pictures of it are googlable.) Because it is visible for only a matter of seconds, if that, people tend to slam on their brakes, generally paralyzing traffic during rush hour.

Word has it that for years now they have had a special crew on alert to paint out the "SURRENDER DOROTHY" as soon as it is reported in the morning, so as to keep the traffic moving as safely as possible. Even in between times, the sixteen rectangles are plainly visible to those who look for them.The temple is sort of unique in not having windows, except for the stained glass in a narrow column in the stairwells at either end. Light gets in from the outside through the translucent marble that covers the temple. Inside it's pretty much nothing like the cathedral that might be imagined from the outside, having something like seven floors for various uses from baptisms in the huge font in the basement to locker rooms on the entrance floor to marriage-ceremony rooms upstairs and so on until you get to the tabernacle (of choir fame).

They have their own government-certified police and fire departments, and outsiders aren't welcome, even for weddings. And it's not all that easy even for a card-carrying Mormon to get in. I hear they ripped up all the carpets and replaced them shortly after I was in there.
As metaphor for alt.usage.english, it's probably flawed; but they could do worse than to name the bridge after Young Joey.

R. J. Valentine
(Got tickets from the guy that raised bald eagles in the apartment upstairs.)
Coop:

There's no such thing as bad publicity.
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Valentine:
On one of the middle bridges, pranksters fairly regularly (since the temple was built) paint in large block letters "SURRENDER DOROTHY".

HUH?! Who's "Dorothy"? Bea Arthur?
I hear they ripped up all the carpets and replaced them shortly after I was in there.

Why was you in a Mormon temple?
As metaphor for alt.usage.english, it's probably flawed; but they could do worse than to name the bridge after Young Joey.

What? Huh?