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I know that I can't tell the difference (by ear, anyway) between (IN) and (iN).

Have you listened to CNN's Aaron Brown? He seems to use something close to the (iN) form.
Ross:

Oops. I missed out this bit: http://www.scjbrands.com/docs/menu/scj home.htm

OK, thanks. I get it now. I think I know that company as "Johnson & Johnson".

You're trying to stem the flow of blood with a band-aid. With the amount of blood flowing, you'll need a mop.
Students: Are you brave enough to let our tutors analyse your pronunciation?
Isn't it actually more (i) (i.e. the Spanish/Italian "i" ) than (iEmotion: smile? Do you really use exactly the same vowels as in "weakling"?

I suppose it could be (i), but when I say "English" or "sing" I feel like I'm using the same vowel as in "eeny" and "seen".
You can hear for yourself in two sound files at
http://www.exw6sxq.com/sparky/aue related/speech examples/win and wing.html . I would appreciate any opinions regarding what vowels I'm using in those files.
I say ('i:NglIS), ('i:[email protected]), (wi:N), and (stri:N) ("eenglish", "eengland", "weeng", ... (I), I will clearly hear them pronouncing them with (iEmotion: smile.

I know that I can't tell the difference (by ear, anyway) between (IN) and (iN). This is all because, as ... cases to the short-vowel phonemes /I/ and /&/, rather than the long-vowel phonemes /i/ and /e/ that they also resemble.)

When I try to pronounce (IN), (&N), or {EN), it seems difficult and unnatural. But (A:N) (as in "wrong") and (VN) (as in "hung") are no problem. I can't think at the moment of any English words that have (aIN), (oUN), or (u:N) but I don't find them unnatural to pronounce. I think I use (eIN) in "angle" and (i:N) in "sing".
I don't see any short-vowel-long-vowel pattern there.

Some people may want to listen to my rendition of "The rain in Spain falls mainly at an angle on the ankles of the angels on the plain" at
http://www.exw6sxq.com/sparky/aue related/speech examples/rain in spain.wav . Also "We sing if we bring in a win" and "In England we sing things in English" at
http://www.exw6sxq.com/sparky/aue related/speech examples/win and wing.html . `
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}> "=> It is not a verbal contract ... but an oral one that }> => is not worth the paper it is written on.
}> =
}> =
}> =An oral contract "is not worth the paper it's written on"? }> =I must be lost!
}>
}> It's a "samuelgoldwynism." Also referred to as "goldwynesque speech"!" }>
}> HUH???!!!
}
} So give us your best guess as to the name of the person that might } refer to, and let us know what happens when you hand that name to } Google.
Come on, Ev! There's a such of a thing as being TOO easy on the kid.

R. J. Valentine
Students: We have free audio pronunciation exercises.
(Not just out of habit, actually: /I/ also fits the ... not canonical long vowels like /u/, /o/, or the diphthongs.

Wot, no "oink", "boink", "boing", or "Oingo Boingo"?

Good counterexample. I suppose the "oi" diphthong isn't one of the canonical long vowels (/ai/ is, and arguably /au/ could be as well), but it seems like it ought to pattern with them. Then again, /U/ doesn't pattern with the canonical short vowels in many respects (though it does in some respects), so perhaps there is justification for distinguishing the "canonical" vowels as a class.
That diphthong has a high front offglide, so it doesn't undermine your case.

I don't quite see what you mean. /ai/ has a high front offglide as well.

-Aaron J. Dinkin
Dr. Whom
When I try to pronounce (IN), (&N), or {EN), it seems difficult and unnatural. But (A:N) (as in "wrong") and (VN) (as in "hung") are no problem.

I find (&N) unnatural to pronounce as well, but no more so than I find (&n) or (&m). When I've got /&/ before /N/, I think it comes out as something a lot higher than Emotion: dog, maybe even (e). I analyze this as /&/ rather than /e/ for the reasons detailed in my previous posting.

No (EN)? How do you pronounce "strength"? (I have different vowels in "strength" and, for instance, "ankle".)
As I've already mentioned, I can't say whether I've got (IN) or not.
I can't think at the moment of any English words that have (aIN), (oUN), or (u:N) but I don't find them unnatural to pronounce. I think I use (eIN) in "angle" and (i:N) in "sing". I don't see any short-vowel-long-vowel pattern there.

Fair enough. It looks like your dialect has a significantly different pattern of what can go before /N/ than mine does. That's perfectly legitimate. Mine is restricted (mostly) to canonical short vowels; yours seems to be more complicated. It seems to be similar to (though not the same as) the set of vowels allowed before /r/.
Some people may want to listen to my rendition of "The rain in Spain falls mainly at an angle on ... bring in a win" and "In England we sing things in English" at http://www.exw6sxq.com/sparky/aue related/speech examples/win and wing.html . `

Your "ang" vowels in "ankle" and "angle" sound lower than (eIN) to me, and lower than I think I would pronounce them - perhaps even as far down as (&N). Your "ing" vowels do sound higher than your "in" vowels, so I'm willing to accept your description of them as (iN) rather than (IN).

I still don't have Praat, or anything that can tell me about formants, on my home computer, so I can't analyze your sentences with more than my ear; but I'm taking Phonetics this semester so that'll probably change.

-Aaron J. Dinkin
Dr. Whom
} On Thu, 15 Jan 2004 02:24:12 +0100, Ross Howard

}

}>

}
}> >( . . . )
}
}> >> So the change to /'INglIS/ and /'[email protected]/ was not particularly }> >> unusual it's just that the spelling of and }> >> remained conservative for some reason, while the spelling of }> >> , , etc. reflected the new pronunciation with /IN/. }
}> >I say ('i:NglIS), ('i:[email protected]), (wi:N), and (stri:N) }> >("eenglish", "eengland", "weeng", and "streeng"), and I }> >believe a lot of other people do too.
}
}> >But I know that some people who use (I) in those words will }> >swear that I'm using (I) when I pronounce them, and when }> >they pronounce them supposedly with (I), I will clearly hear }> >them pronouncing them with (iEmotion: smile.
}
}> Isn't it actually more (i) (i.e. the Spanish/Italian "i" ) than (iEmotion: smile? }> Do you really use exactly the same vowels as in "weakling"? }
} I suppose it could be (i), but when I say "English" or } "sing" I feel like I'm using the same vowel as in "eeny" and } "seen".
}
} You can hear for yourself in two sound files at
} http://www.exw6sxq.com/sparky/aue related/speech examples/win and wing.html } . I would appreciate any opinions regarding what vowels I'm } using in those files.
Any opinions? Okay. At first listen, I agree that your "English" and "sing" vowels are on the (i) side of (I) to the point that I wouldn't disagree if you called them (i), rather than (I), because they are distinctly different from the (I) you use in "win". I don't think they're protracted enough that *I* would call them (iEmotion: smile, and they don't strike me to be what you might hypothetically might do with (or to) "seeng", which might well be (iEmotion: smile.
I similarly sort of agree with what I think you are saying elsewhere about "ang" and "ank" sounds in relation to "cat" sounds. I don't recall your "can a cat man" "man" sound to compare that one just now.

R. J. Valentine
Teachers: We supply a list of EFL job vacancies
( . . . )
I still don't have Praat, or anything that can tell me about formants, on my home computer, so I can't analyze your sentences with more than my ear; but I'm taking Phonetics this semester so that'll probably change.

I exchanged some e-mails with Professor Ladefoged a year or three ago. He said they had Praat, but it was "languishing on the shelf". He told me about a software package that he had and that he liked a lot more. (Unlike Praat, it wasn't free.) I'll see if I can dig up the message.
I would think that your university should have a
phonetics-analysis package that would be available to faculty and students.
Anyway, it will be good to know that someone else in AUE is doing formant analysis. I've long wished for someone to compare results with.
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