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I suppose it could be (i), but when I say "English" or "sing" I feel like I'm using the same vowel as in "eeny" and "seen".

Could it be that you're a Californian? I think a lot of those say "workeen" instead of "working", etc. Mike Hardy
I know that I can't tell the difference (by ear, ... dialect of English differentiates between /i/ and /I/ before /N/.

You gotta be kidding. "Tin" and "teen" are pronounced quite differently from each other, and the difference is exactly that between "bit" and "beat".

Aaron said "before /N/", not "before /n/". /N/ is the sound typically written "ng".
I think that I can tell the difference between (IN) and (iN), but (iN) sounds "foreign", and it's the sound I would use in, say, a fake Mexican accent. In words like "seeing", I have the two next to one another: /siIN/, and there's a distinct difference. (There doesn't appear to be any appreciable glide between them.)

Evan Kirshenbaum + HP Laboratories >When all else fails, give the
1501 Page Mill Road, 1U, MS 1141 >customer what they ask for. ThisPalo Alto, CA 94304 >is strong medicine and rarely needs

(650)857-7572
http://www.kirshenbaum.net /
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I suppose it could be (i), but when I say ... I'm using the same vowel as in "eeny" and "seen".

Could it be that you're a Californian? I think a lot of those say "workeen" instead of "working", etc. Mike Hardy

I've been a Southern Californian for the past sixty years or so.
And I do say "working".
Every English speaker in the world not excepting non-native speakers says "working".
I suppose you say "working", but it's possible you pronounce it differently from the way I do.
I know that I can't tell the difference (by ear, ... dialect of English differentiates between /i/ and /I/ before /N/.

You gotta be kidding. "Tin" and "teen" are pronounced quite differently from each other, and the difference is exactly that ... barely.) If I heard someone say "teen" when they meant "tin", I would find it jarringly conspicuous. Mike Hardy

(N) is KirshASCIIIPA for the final consonant of "thing" (in most English dialects, anyway (I presume)), not the final consonant of "thin".

I am well aware of there being numerous AmE accents that sound to me like they use a more (i)-like vowel in "ing" than sounds "normal" to me. I'm guessing that this is a Western dialect thing (or "theeng"). The Western part explains Bob Cunningham's wanting to use (i) to represent his pronunciation. Bob is nothing if not a Western American speaker par excellence.
I think I've heard something that might be related in certain Midland accents, but not necessarily for /I/ before /N/. I know one (Midland-region) Hoosier who says "get 'im" as what sounds to me like "get eem". I think I've heard something like this in Western Pennsylvania accents too.
I'm reminded of those Midland speakers who say "measure" like "may-zher", not to mention the egg-rhymes-with-vague crowd. Needless to say, it doesn't happen in Postwar New York Prestige Standard (The American RP of the Twenty-first Century (TM)).
When you find him on the web, he'll often be in the company of Dizzy Dean, Casey Stengel and Yogi Berra (baseball players), Dan Quayle (son of a prominent newspaper publisher), and Eugene Ormandy (orchestra conductor)..r

I don't think I've ever seen Ormandy mentioned as a source of such things. I see a list of his at
http://users.actrix.co.nz/dgold/fun/ormandy.html
and they're pretty good, but I don't think I've heard any of them before. (With the exception of "I don't want to confuse you any more than absolutely necessary".)

Evan Kirshenbaum + HP Laboratories >I believe there are more instances
1501 Page Mill Road, 1U, MS 1141 >of the abridgment of the freedom ofPalo Alto, CA 94304 >the people by gradual and silent
Students: We have free audio pronunciation exercises.
You gotta be kidding. "Tin" and "teen" are pronounced quite differently from each other, and the difference is exactly that between "bit" and "beat".

Aaron said "before /N/", not "before /n/". /N/ is the sound typically written "ng".

Oh. I knew that, but I'm less than fluent in ASCIIIPA.

Maybe Aaron's right, but I am still inclinded to think of these as different sounds.
BTW, long before I ever suspected that some people pronounce "ten" like "tin" I mentioned to someone the obvious fact that the pronunciation of "English" and "England" is an exception, in that people pronounce it as if it were spelled "Inglish" and "Ingland". I was surprised that he could not understand what I was talking about. By hindsight I suspect he was one of those. Mike Hardy
Every English speaker in the world not excepting non-native speakers says "working".

Not so. My wife, a former southern Californian, says "workeen". She is capable of saying "working", but only with conspicuous effort. And a transplant from the Midwest who has lived for a couple of decades in northern California tells me he hears that there as well. He mentioned this without having heard anything from me about this; it's quite independent of my own observation. Mike Hardy
PS: It is surprising to hear someone say that some pronunciation is used universally throughout the English-speaking world.
( . . . )
I think I've heard something that might be related in certain Midland accents, but not necessarily for /I/ before /N/. I know one (Midland-region) Hoosier who says "get 'im" as what sounds to me like "get eem".

I think that's the normal pronunciation in Postwar Northern Utah Prestige Standard. Anyway, it's the way I think I say it. I also pronounce the "ish" in "English" (iS) (roughly, "eesh").
Students: Are you brave enough to let our tutors analyse your pronunciation?
SNL:

For those AUErs who also read AFU: don't you want to introduce Joey to Jami JoAnne and see what happens?

Who is she? Wpuld I like her? Is AFU "alt.french.usage"? I don't speak French.

Joey, AFU is not alt.french.usage and I think some people here on AUE are maybe taunting you a bit by referring only to "AFU" and by avoiding referring to that newsgroup using its full name. AFU does exist though, for sure. Just go to Google, click on 'Groups', and then type in "AFU". You'll find it.

Christopher
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