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Mike Powell:
Do you have a law over there that makes you responsible for anyone's safety on the bit of pavement that you have treated?

I wouldn't know.
Brian Wickham:
I can only speak for my area which is NYC. Here the snow and ice must be cleared from a walkway within four hours of the snowfall ending.

That sounds awfully impractical you might be asleep or at work for the whole time. Here we get 12 hours.
(However, in much of the city, the city plows the sidewalks and in that case the homeowner doesn't have to do it at all. This started in North York when it was a separate city; after the great "megacity" amalgamation of 1998 City Council felt obliged, by way of harmonization of services, to plow wherever the sidewalk layout allows it, typically in areas developed since about 1950.)
Not clearing snow or ice is a fineable offense ...

The way it works here is, if you don't clear it yourself, and anyone phones in a complaint to City Hall, they'll send a crew out to clear it at your expense. Or at least, that's the way it worked before 1998; I don't think it's changed since, but I might not have heard.
and the homeowner is always responsible for pedestrian safety on their property, cleared or not. ...

The 12-hour law I spoke of is about sidewalks, which are normally on city property adjacent to one's own property. I'm not aware of an explicit requirement to clear the path from one's house to the sidewalk. If someone slips and falls on your property due to your negligence, though, that sounds like a civil liability situation to me.
Mark Brader, Toronto "I'm not a lawyer, but I'm pedantic and (Email Removed) that's just as good." D Gary Grady

My text in this article is in the public domain.
I can only speak for my area which is NYC. ... of their businesses. Are these rules strictly enforced? Not always.

Interesting. What happens if the pedestrian is trespassing? What about people who live alone, are physically disabled, and do not ... middle-class neighbourhood in London or the south-east I would not expect my neighbours to volunteer to clear my snow away.

Clearing snow 'can get you sued'
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk politics/3453039.stm

Matti
Teachers: We supply a list of EFL job vacancies
Mike Powell: I wouldn't know. Brian Wickham:

Is it negligence to leave the snow as it fell, when the risk is apparent?
Mike

M.J.Powell
I can only speak for my area which is NYC. ... of their businesses. Are these rules strictly enforced? Not always.

Interesting. What happens if the pedestrian is trespassing? What about people who live alone, are physically disabled, and do not ... middle-class neighbourhood in London or the south-east I would not expect my neighbours to volunteer to clear my snow away.

Get further away from London and they will do it for you if you can't cope. Even in Cheshire.
Mike

M.J.Powell
I can only speak for my area which is NYC. ... of their businesses. Are these rules strictly enforced? Not always.

Interesting. What happens if the pedestrian is trespassing?

Quite off the point since we were discussing public walkways at the front of one's property, but no you can't have any unsafe condition anywhere on your property that could cause anyone injury. Oil delivery and electric meter reading require people to have access to the side of one's home. These are not considered public areas in the sense that casual passersby may use them. But we are not talking about civil penalties here, this is more an issue for home insurance.
What about people who live alone, are physically disabled, and do not have the funds to have someone else clear the snow away?

They pay some kid on the block to shovel the walk every time it snows. If they are so destitute that they can't afford that, then how do they afford the upkeep, mortgage and taxes on their homes? We are only talking about $10 to $20 per snowstorm. But this is a false issue as older people generally sell the house when it becomes too big a job to handle. Since they usually get ten, twenty or even thirty times what they paid it's a clear incentive to move to Florida.
In an English middle-class neighbourhood in London or the south-east I would not expect my neighbours to volunteer to clear my snow away.

Quite the contrary in NYC, most older people who can't handle snow clearance do find that neighbors volunteer to clear their walks. We are not talking about a lot of old people in this predicament as the few that are left usually have a relative who handles it for them. When I was a teen I would shovel walks for money but my father always told me to first go over to old Mrs. Galanti's house and do it first for free. All year long Mrs. Galanti sat at the window and kept an eye on our cars parked nearby. So that's what some old folks do, they give good value in kind.
Back to the original point: When I leave my apartment building to walk to the store I have a reasonable expectation that the sidewalks I use are passable (snow and ice removed) and in good condition (no large cracks to trip over). The city says that this is so and has delegated the property owner to be financially responsible for it.

So who has the legal responsibility to remove snow from sidewalks in England? And how much does it actually snow?
Brian Wickham
Site Hint: Check out our list of pronunciation videos.
Interesting. What happens if the pedestrian is trespassing?

Quite off the point

I don't think so, as you said "...homeowner is always responsible for pedestrian safety on their property...", but you went on to explain, so it's not worth debating.
since we were discussing public walkways at the front of one's property, but no you can't have any unsafe condition ... may use them. But we are not talking about civil penalties here, this is more an issue for home insurance.

What about people who live alone, are physically disabled, and do not have the funds to have someone else clear the snow away?

They pay some kid on the block to shovel the walk every time it snows.

There is only one teenager in my close, to my knowledge, and I wouldn't want him anywhere near my property. I see the neighbours who live further away than next door only when they drive past when I'm in the front garden. As Mike hinted, we are not a matey lot near London, even those who came from further north.
If they are so destitute that they can't afford that, then how do they afford the upkeep, mortgage and taxes ... they usually get ten, twenty or even thirty times what they paid it's a clear incentive to move to Florida.

In an English middle-class neighbourhood in London or the south-east I would not expect my neighbours to volunteer to clear my snow away.

Quite the contrary in NYC, most older people who can't handle snow clearance do find that neighbors volunteer to clear ... old people in this predicament as the few that are left usually have a relative who handles it for them.

I have no relatives who live in England. Tough, huh!
When I was a teen I would shovel walks for money but my father always told me to first go ... an eye on our cars parked nearby. So that's what some old folks do, they give good value in kind.

Ah, yes. Fifty years ago when I was a teenager in the Midlands, we would do things like that for older neighbours. But times and my location have changed.
Back to the original point: When I leave my apartment building to walk to the store I have a reasonable ... owner to be financially responsible for it. So who has the legal responsibility to remove snow from sidewalks in England?

Nobody, at least in my area. As Matti pointed out, if you do and somebody has an accident, you are legally liable, so it's best not to even try.
And how much does it actually snow?

Very seldom in the south. Only one or two days last year. But two inches or so is enough to cause chaos on the roads. After the blizzard a week or so ago, I noticed that the storekeepers in the town cleared snow from in front of their premises, but my neighbours just left it untouched, because from previous experience we know that it usually melts within a day or two.

wrmst rgrds
Robin Bignall
Quiet part of Hertfordshire
England
Matti Lamprhey expostulated:
Interesting. What happens if the pedestrian is trespassing? What about ... expect my neighbours to volunteer to clear my snow away.

Clearing snow 'can get you sued' http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk politics/3453039.stm

No problem here, then. We have no footpaths in our road.

David
==
There is only one teenager in my close, to my knowledge, and I wouldn't want him anywhere near my property.

That sentence stopped me cold. I had thought I understood the British meaning of 'close' that is not included in AmE. I see now that my assumption the Scottish meaning was used universally was wrong. Under 'close', the COD, ed 10, has:
'1 *Brit.* a residential street without through access.
2 *Brit.* the precinct surrounding a cathedral.
3 Scottish an entry from the street to a common stairway or to acourt at the back of a building.'
Now Robin's sentence makes sense to me. Tricky things, words.
Charles Riggs
Email address: chriggs¦at¦eircom¦dot¦net
Students: We have free audio pronunciation exercises.
Back to the original point: When I leave my apartment building to walk to the store I have a reasonable ... So who has the legal responsibility to remove snow from sidewalks in England? And how much does it actually snow?

No one. In fact, in my home town which I left in '49 it was the practice to pile up the snow from the road onto the pavement. Shopkeepers cut a slot for access to their premises.
It seems odd to me that a house-holder should have the responsibility for clearing snow off council property.
Mike

M.J.Powell
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