re: I've Been Here Too Long page 6

Not that this answers your question, but in the song ... complaints about the ship is that "the skipper's half Dutch."

That must be twice as bad as an all-Dutch captain.

The Dutch, with a few exceptions, aren't half as bad as many make them out to be.

That's just age-old English jealousy,
based historically on loosing a couple of Anglo-Dutch wars, and on being unable to compete succesfully in commerce.

Relations with the Americans have been better historically: the Dutch supported the American Republic from the beginning. They even financed it, with a risk of never seeing their money back in case the insurrection failed.
I ran into a bevy of them yesterday something to do with

a local football match, apparently and found, once again, they are a most civilized lot. The English of at ... Amsterdam. You'd have thought you were talking with a man out of Oxford or some such institution, one of them.

That -is- the aim of teaching English in the Netherlands, traditionally. And in some cases the teachers more or less succeed. American usage or accent is discouraged,
or even punished by subtracting points for it.
And it does help of course that there have always been very good contacts and exchanges
between de best English and Dutch universities.
Best,
Jan

Wales, too; though more often "lovely boy", John Bull's other appendage being one of those places where men are boys.

I hear 'He's a lovely man' at least once a week here in Ireland. As an American, I'm still not ... a man or a woman, assuming no romantic involvement or wished-for involvement, to a male older than 8, that is.

West of England "Moi dearr" to all ages, sexes, and anything else has still not quite died out, I'm pleased to report. If you consider "Dear Sir" at the top of letters, it doesn't seem at all odd.

Mike.

Not in general; my Eastern Massachusetts/Northeastern New Jersey Italian-American relatives ... a New York-area thing, and is probably uncommon among post-Sputniks.

It's my observation that it's 3d Generation Italian-Americans and "Italians" in "Italiansploitation(TM) films and TV shows" that confuse gravy and ... gravy; puttanesca, alfrado, pesto, olio and, of course, marinara, are not, they are sauces just as most ItAmers call them.

That's good info. The rule may apply in Chicago's
Little Italy as well, but as I never knew my neighbors there to have anything but meatballs or sausage in their pasta sauce, so I can't say for sure. Sounds likely, though.

Michael West
Melbourne, Australia

That must be twice as bad as an all-Dutch captain.

The Dutch, with a few exceptions, aren't half as bad as many make them out to be.

That's just age-old English jealousy, based historically on loosing a couple of Anglo-Dutch wars, and on being unable to compete succesfully in commerce.

I don't know how much truth there is to it, but I read somewhere that the Dutch were the first to set up commercial banks. 'Bank' though relates to 'bench' where Jews of old, the story goes, arranged loans and the like.

Relations with the Americans have been better historically: the Dutch supported the American Republic from the beginning. They even financed it, with a risk of never seeing their money back in case the insurrection failed.

I'd always thought our relations were good, but one of the Dutch punters in town informed me yesterday that his countrymen are not particularly fond of Americans, although he and I got along all right. Could have simply been his personal view though.

I ran into a bevy of them yesterday something to do with

a local football match, apparently and found, once again, they are a most civilized lot.

Wrong on 'local'. They're here for the annual Walk, last night watching the Holland vs Portugal match on the tube. I know zilch about soccer so I thought it was some local thing. Several wore weird costumes, silly hats included, all part of the hoopla over the thing. Much louder too, the Dutch, than the Irish. One man compared them to a bunch of Americans, in that respect. A matter of customs, nothing serious.

The English of at least two of them flabbergasted me, ... out of Oxford or some such institution, one of them.

That -is- the aim of teaching English in the Netherlands, traditionally. And in some cases the teachers more or less succeed. American usage or accent is discouraged, or even punished by subtracting points for it.

My main man from the group could, as he demonstrated, speak with an English or an American accent, the second probably because he spent some time in the US. He could even do a respectable Irish accent. Talented with a number of other languages too, this fellow.

And it does help of course that there have always been very good contacts and exchanges between de best English and Dutch universities.

Better them, for sure, than the Indian clan represented in many of our engineering schools, generally skedaddling back to their country immediately after graduation. I'm told their aloofness and unsociability towards the American students is due to the fact that most of them are of one of the higher, or highest, caste. Hindus. Buddhists don't go in for that nonsense.
Charles

That is the only possible explanation. No-one says 'gravy cheese', especially no Italian, lovers of food as they are. Ridiculous notion.

Where did you get the idea that I was referring to an Italian? Or, even to a person of Italian ... residents of Bensonhurst are required to be Italian, but until we get word on this no assumptions can be made.

My mistake. If he was an American speaker of unknown origins, education, or background, anything is possible even, perhaps, 'gravy cheese'. Yuck.
Thank goodness, ha-ha, I'm in a place where everyone is exactly like everyone else, and no-one need wonder about their accent, what they are likely to believe or what to eat, or their origins: Celt + Danish, with a smattering of Brit, although many people attempt to forget the strong Scandinavian influence: easier to do here than in Dublin, founded by the good men and women called the Vikings, popularly wronged for their alleged brutality when traders, settlers, then builders, and finally good mixers were what they actually were.

Anyhoo, to discourage diversity taking hold and to promote the safety of sameness, the citizens resoundingly voted Yes early last month on a referendum that will make it more difficult, once the more restrictive immigration laws planned by the government are enacted, for a child born of foreign parents here to claim citizenship. Throw those strange-looking weenies out, yes, yes. Christ knows many of them don't even have green or blue eyes! Labour pushed for No, but few people seemed to be listening. Sinn Fein, the other major liberal party here since how many people give a rat's ass what the Greens rave on about less so.
Travellers are trying to get a break, as the report I quoted mentions, but no-one's listening to them either. You may recall the infamous, as some see it, court case settled in Chris Lavelle's favour I reported on not so long ago: the upshot being that, even though it is clearly illegal as many of us read the law, it is OK to discriminate against travellers attempting to enter public places. Lawyers for the travellers are still fighting that ruling, naturally enough.

Still, I was happy to see that both Labour and Sinn Fein made strong showings in the recent local vote around the country, gaining a bit of ground on the two misguided parties forming the coalition attempting to run this country. One thing almost everyone here does agree with me on is that our stumbling leader Bertie Ahern has got to go. Goodbye Ahern, Blair, and Bush, then perhaps we'll be somewhat closer to that perfect world we loonies cry out for.
Charles, calming down

I think we started out assuming that this fellow was ... I still think suggests that he may have been Italian.

We? We now think? Who is "we"?

Uncalled for, yes. I take safety in assuming that the AUE 'we' generally refers to Ms Richoux, by Ms Richoux. Areff is also unique and, to my knowledge, isn't in a group sufficiently understood and defined that he can refer to it as 'we'.
Charles

I don't know how much truth there is to it, but I read somewhere that the Dutch were the first to set up commercial banks. 'Bank' though relates to 'bench' where Jews of old, the story goes, arranged loans and the like.

I would think Jews did most of the money lending up to the Middle Ages at least, but I think modern banking was invented by the Italians or the Lombards. I'm hoping someone will follow this up.

Rob Bannister

That's just age-old English jealousy, based historically on loosing a couple of Anglo-Dutch wars, and on being unable to compete succesfully in commerce.

I don't know how much truth there is to it, but I read somewhere that the Dutch were the first to set up commercial banks. 'Bank' though relates to 'bench' where Jews of old, the story goes, arranged loans and the like.

Well no, banking in the modern form was invented in Northern Italy, in places like Florence.
The Dutch did invent the limited liability company though, run by a board of directors.

Relations with the Americans have been better historically: the Dutch ... never seeing their money back in case the insurrection failed.

I'd always thought our relations were good, but one of the Dutch punters in town informed me yesterday that his countrymen are not particularly fond of Americans, although he and I got along all right. Could have simply been his personal view though.

Traditionaly relations with America and Americans
have always been very friendly.
The present adminstration however has succeeded
in blowing that very much too pieces.
Best,
Jan

I don't know how much truth there is to it, ... of old, the story goes, arranged loans and the like.

I would think Jews did most of the money lending up to the Middle Ages at least, but I think modern banking was invented by the Italians or the Lombards. I'm hoping someone will follow this up.

Where do you think the Lombards lived?
And 'Italians' didn't exist at the time.
However, the point of inventing that banking and credit system was to make trade and travel over longer distances posssible. And most of that went to the Netherlands,
then still mostly the southern half.
Those Italian family banks set up branch offices in Flanders.

Jan