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Here in OZ, a sauce made from tomato is by ... I've never bought it and compared it with tomato sauce.

I was under the impression, until your posting anyway, that BrE/AusE "tomato sauce" was a synonym for AmE "(tomato) ketchup".

I think Frances's recent posting puts us on the track to the truth of the matter: BrE "tomato sauce" encompasses both tomato ketchup and AmE tomato sauce (=BrE other kinds of tomato sauce) including NJSoItAmE "gravy".

Can't speak to what happens saucewise in Oz; never been.

Roland Hutchinson              Will play viola da gamba for food.

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In all cases the mushrooms, oysters, or walnuts are left ... than the named ingredient, is then used in the ketchup.

This morning, with this thread in mind, I told my husband (our household's food guru) that I'd just found a recipe for mushroom ketchup. "Ah, yes," he said gloomily, "You leave it to suppurate."

I like that. I realised when I wrote "left in water" that it was a seriously weak description for a culinary technique.
And there I'd been thinking that next time they're selling off boxes of mushrooms in the market ...

Oh dear! Any old mushrooms, at any time of year, just will not do. Mrs Beeton was specific:

Choose fully grown mushrooms and take care they are freshly gathered when the weather is tolerably dry, for, if they are picked during very heavy rain, the ketchup from which they are made is liable to get musty and will not keep long.
...
Seasonable from the beginning of September to the middle of October, when this ketchup should be made.

Peter Duncanson
UK (posting from a.u.e)
Site Hint: Check out our list of pronunciation videos.
Firstly, is ketchup idiom in the UK? (News to me ... I've never bought it and compared it with tomato sauce.

The word originates in South Asia (e.g. Malay kechap) meaning a spicy sauce, not originally made with tomatos since tomatos were not grown there in the 19th century when colonials brought the word back to Britain, Netherlands etc.

In the Netherlands, when dining at an Indonesian restaurant (frequently referred to as Chinese by the Dutch...) you will usualy find a bottle of brown liquid on the table with the rest of the condiments which is labelled "Ketjap Manis". (Pronounced Ketchup/Ketyup).
This is soy sauce and the approximate equivalent of the little bottles one finds on tables in Chinese restaurants elsewhere - but I'm not sure if it is exactly the same stuff. This is because sometimes the bottle is be labelled "Ketjap Benteng" which I always assumed was different, one being sweet and the other salt. But I have also been told that they are both abbreviations for the full name which is "Ketjap Benteng Manis".
Jitze
The 'Cider and Beer' thread above got me looking at a site with traditional English recipes. I noticed that for ... ketchup idiom in the UK? (News to me if it is). Secondly, are there types of ketchup other than tomato?

http://www.answers.com/ketchup
#begin quoteThe source of our word ketchup may be the Malay word ke-chap, possibly taken into Malay from the Cantonese dialect of Chinese. Ke-chap, like ketchup, was a sauce, but one without tomatoes; rather, it contained fish brine, herbs, and spices. Sailors seem to have brought the sauce to Europe, where it was made with locally available ingredients such as the juice of mushrooms or walnuts. At some unknown point, when the juice of tomatoes was first used, ketchup as we know it was born.

But it is important to realize that in the 18th and 19th centuries ketchup was a generic term for sauces whose only common ingredient was vinegar. The word is first recorded in English in 1690 in the form catchup, in 1711 in the form ketchup, and in 1730 in the form catsup. All three spelling variants of this foreign borrowing remain current. #end quote
#begin quote
Prior to Heinz (and his fellow innovators), commercial tomato ketchups of that time were watery and thin, in part due to the use of unripe tomatoes, which were low in pectin. They were also less vinegary than modern ketchups; by pickling ripe tomatoes, the need for benzoate was eliminated without spoilage or degradation in flavor. But the changes driven by the desire to eliminate benzoate also produced changes that some experts (such as Andrew F. Smith (2)
(http://www.press.uillinois.edu/f01/smith.html )) believe were key to the establishment of tomato ketchup as the dominant American condiment.

Until Heinz, most commercial ketchups appealed to two of the basic tastes: bitterness and saltiness. But the switch to ripe tomatoes and more tomato solids added savoriness, and the major increase in the concentration of vinegar added sourness and pungency to the range of sensations experienced during its consumption. And because the elimination of benzoate was also accompanied by a doubling of the sweetness of ketchup, a balanced stimulation of all five types of taste buds produced an almost gestalt effect.
#end quote
#begin quote
Ketchup in the 1800s referred to any sauce made with vinegar. As the century progressed, tomato ketchup began its ascent in popularity, influenced by an American enthusiasm for tomatoes. However, the Webster's Dictionary of 1913 still places mushroom before tomato. #end quote
The 'Cider and Beer' thread above got me looking at ... is). Secondly, are there types of ketchup other than tomato?

http://www.answers.com/ketchup

(snip excerpt from article)
Answers.com also has recipes for non-tomato ketchups, at

http://homecooking.about.com/library/archive/blcon13.htm

They include banana ketchup and ancho chile ketchup, both of which contain tomato paste, and blueberry ketchup, which includes "1 cup fresh tomato, peeled, seeded and chopped." Among the "non-tomato ketchups" with no tomatoes at all are cherry ketchup, cranberry ketchup, mango ketchup, mushroom ketchup, peach ketchup, and "Un-Tomato Ketchup." Walnut ketchup was also mentioned in this thread.
I asked my mother if she had heard of ketchup made with no tomatoes, and she remembered a ketchup made with zucchinis, sweet peppers, and onions, which, as she put it, did not look like ketchup. I was unable to find any recipe on the Internet using zucchinis, but I did find "green ketchup" at

http://www.ketchup.wonderland.org/recipes/green.html

which contained green tomatoes, head cabbage, apples, sweet peppers, onions, and hot peppers.

Raymond S. Wise
Minneapolis, Minnesota USA
E-mail: mplsray @ yahoo . com
Students: We have free audio pronunciation exercises.
Spaghetti sauce, or pizza sauce, or even, tomato sauce. Not ... pizza - but I've only had that in Greenwich CT.

Next time, try Pepe's in New Haven. Pizza so authentic they still call it "tomato pie".

I've eaten at Pepe's many times, but I usually have the white clam pizza. I never heard anyone call it pie, but then I probably wasn't listening.
Fran
Next time, try Pepe's in New Haven. Pizza so authentic they still call it "tomato pie".

I've eaten at Pepe's many times, but I usually have the white clam pizza. I never heard anyone call it pie, but then I probably wasn't listening.

It's not called "pie" it's "a pie".
Well, assuming the folks in New Haven have the terminology right, as I think they do. They also call it "abizza", which is sort of Neapolitan for "la pizza".
I question the authenticity of "white clam pizza", but it's nowhere as notionally bad as the "American cheese pizza" they serve at The Modern. But the normal pizza is pretty good.
The word originates in South Asia (e.g. Malay kechap) meaning a spicy sauce, not originally made with tomatos since tomatos ... rather than linguistics. The American association of ketchup with tomato sauce appears to be an artifact of food brand advertising.

When I visited Singapore 20 years ago I could read three Malay words on the menus at food centres: ketchap, blatjan and pisang.

Ketchup has been taken into English to mean sauce.

Blatjang and piesang are Afrikans for chutney and banana respectively.

Steve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/7734/stevesig.htm
E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk
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This is almost, but not quite, as disorienting as being asked if you want salad on your hamburger.

I suppose you think that beetroot on a hamburger is strange then..

Hamburgers are far from traditional Australian fare, but a typical Aussie 'works' hamburger, bought at a non-chain takeaway, would consist of the following ingredients, from bottom to top:
Half toasted bun
Cheese melted onto bun (not processed cheese, just thinly sliced supermarket-grade cheddar)
Beef patty
Barbecue Sauce*
Pineapple
Bacon
Tomato
Beetroot**
Lettuce
Half toasted bun
*not American barbecue sauce. I don't know if you can get it in the UK or US. A good approximation can be made by mixing 3 parts tomato sauce to 1 part Worcestershire suace.
**sliced beetroot, pickled in vinegar
The beetroot takes the place of the American pickle, by adding a tart flavour to the melange.
McDonald here have a hamburger called, I believe, McOz. Apparently when it was introduced, there was a national beetroot shortage.

Stupot
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