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OK, I will pronounce. It is not and Americanism, conscious ... origin or indeed class (which is likely amore common differentiator).

My ancient COD, c1964, agrees. Not an Americanism, but probably derived from Chinese, it says. Also gives "catsup" as a variant of "ketchup:, but nary a wordabout US origin.

Yes, but as we've observed before, that misses out a step in evolution. In the 1906 Beeton, all ketchups were runny , and the kinds were: Anchovy, Cucumber, Mushroom, Mustapha (or Liver), Pontac, and Walnut no tomato. The three recipes for what we'd recognize as bottled tomato ketchup are all headed "Tomato Sauce". On the plate showing commercial bottled sauces there isn't a tomato one, though another plate shows that Heinz's (sic) Baked Beans in Tomato Sauce were already established.
American sources will tell us when sieved tomato sauce acquired the name "ketchup", and Australian shoppers can tell us which brands still say "sauce" on the label. OED1 says ketchup can be made from the juice of tomatoes, among other things, but doesn't get specific about viscosity.
My point is that we have a double derivation here. Yes, "ketchup" comes from the Chinese; but the BrEtcE application to the tomato kind comes from American usage, because it refers to a radically different type of sauce, since the others are essentially infusions, not reductions. To that extent it's historically an Americanism, though it's perfectly naturalized: I'd say, though cautiously, that the naturalization took place in my lifetime.

Mike.
Afterwards, I added the paste to the pork barbecue preparation Imade yesterday, if anyone is curious.

You don't have to be curious to post here, but it helps.

I'm pretty curious, I admit. But, being inquisitive too, I wonder when and why Charles stopped being a vegetarian.

Mike.
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I'm pretty curious, I admit. But, being inquisitive too, I wonder when and why Charles stopped being a vegetarian.

I don't recall when Charles became a vegetarian. I do remember him bemoaning the lack of good fillet steak in Ireland.

Fran
Steve Hayes filted:
So we stopped for breakfast, and the next customer who came asked for "Best and mushrooms". Neither we nor the ... How common is that in BrE? Whatever it is, we've adopted it, and will be having best for breakfast shortly.

I learned a few years ago that the restaurant I grew up calling the "International House Of Pancakes" is now simply "IHOP", much as "Kentucky Fried Chicken" is "KFC"...("DVD", once an abbreviation for "Digital Video Disc" and then "Digital Versatile Disc", is now simply the item's name and not an abbreviation at all)..
One of the selections on IHOP's breakfast menu contains no pancakes at all, but it wouldn't do to call the place "International House Of Sausage, Eggs, Biscuits And Gravy"..."IHOSEBAG" just sounds nasty..
From another newsgroup and another century comes this story of acronymous food:

..r
Ketchup is to tomato sauce what mustard is to mayonnaise.


I agree. I would never have made that latter association.
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Was he not one of those Norse godlets? Put his foot in an arrow or something.

Did he need a teutonus shot?

That is not really in Areff's line but I see he appears to know Lokal stuff.
There's a scandal currently rocking the globe involving the London office of the law firm of Baker & McKenzie (which ... do the presumptively BrE speakers involved (the stainer and the stainee) refer to ketchup as "ketchup" rather than "tomato sauce"?

Does "ketchup" perhaps derive from the Indonesian "kecap" or the Malaysian "kicap", probably both derived from Chinese?

I recall asking for Worcestershire sauce in Jakarta. After a length discussion the waiter finally understood that what I wanted was "kecap Inggeris".
I eventually learned to ask for "Lea Perrin".
Izzy
Does "ketchup" perhaps derive from the Indonesian "kecap" or the Malaysian "kicap", probably both derived from Chinese? I recall asking ... discussion the waiter finally understood that what I wanted was "kecap Inggeris". I eventually learned to ask for "Lea Perrin".

As you've seen from other messages in the thread, yes, your derivation is correct. "English ketchup" is a good expression for Worcestershire sauce, too: the real thing still contains anchovies, and the early English ketchup recipes are at least slightly fishy, just as the Malay liquid came from pickled fish. (Compare those smelly but delicious South-East Asian fish sauces.)

Mike.
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I don't suppose the current BrE second syllable stress on kilometre and harass has arrived as a conscious copying from elsewhere either. Words change.

Interesting - both versions are common here. I say HARass and KILometre. The latter because that is what I was ... affluent background, and his family did not have TV at the time that the Cagney and Lacey series was broadcast.

I must admit that "kilOMeter" gets up my nose. How did this start? Is "speedometer" a sufficient explanation? And why is it not simply a "speedmeter"?
Perhaps we should just fall into line with the Yanks and call them "klicks".
Izzy
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